Lets make a list of hardy subjects
- Thread starter MaryHM
- Start date
See http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000019 for the list as currently being discussed, and the discussion on it in:
http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000015
and
http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000024
http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000015
and
http://www.reefs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000024
See what I mean.....Most people see the question and think Im asking the OPPOSITE !Suitable....... ...fish that need NOT be banned? Sounds silly? But no one has the guts to opine on what we should harvest, only what we should not? Wonder why? Could it be that if i was to offer Groupers? {toolarge} damsels? {disposable} Yellow tangs? { depleting numbers in Hawaii} Etc.One could find compelling reasons why not to collect , just about ANY species?
See what I mean.....Most people see the question and think Im asking the OPPOSITE !
No. I saw your post immediately after Mary's and assumed (possibly incorrectly) that you were responding to it. When you post, you can't ignore the context of the other posts in the thread, or you just confuse those who would respond to you.
No. I saw your post immediately after Mary's and assumed (possibly incorrectly) that you were responding to it. When you post, you can't ignore the context of the other posts in the thread, or you just confuse those who would respond to you.
Years and years of debate, Whats not hardy ,what should be banned.............Any one got the guts to offer an opinion on whats "OKEY" to import? Mary? Why not make an acceptable species list, with an explanation of why this fish is suitable .
AH! but there are many an invertebrate in this hobby I see......Still alas, Not a sole.....no one has enough conviction {or spine}in what they partake, to reveal thier thoughts....exposed for all to see? ...... ..."To ban or not to ban, that is the question"......The list of "to ban is easy", thats why its in almost every book and floating in the overflow of many a hobbist..the idea of what " not to ban"?... There never has been a list of what to plunder and why?
Yellow Tangs and Dwarf Angels are being raised by Ocean Institute.
I emailed them and they said they are making progress on feeding fry, which is the hard part (breeding is already cracked).
Flame Angels may be coming soon. I pray so.
I think this subject is very deserving.
Honestly, I think the list of 'sustainable' (at current import #'s, healthy-when-caught fish is smaller than the list of 'Unsuitables' to avoid, frankly. Easier to manage, because the numbers are smaller.
Honestly.
In fact, Mary, I encourage you to share your information, being an insider, on what species are in the best shape in the wild and make the transition best.
Because I assume all wild-caughts are in some danger.
Prove me wrong, or show me the light. I'm asking for your knowledge, not picking a fight.
I emailed them and they said they are making progress on feeding fry, which is the hard part (breeding is already cracked).
Flame Angels may be coming soon. I pray so.
I think this subject is very deserving.
Honestly, I think the list of 'sustainable' (at current import #'s, healthy-when-caught fish is smaller than the list of 'Unsuitables' to avoid, frankly. Easier to manage, because the numbers are smaller.
Honestly.
In fact, Mary, I encourage you to share your information, being an insider, on what species are in the best shape in the wild and make the transition best.
Because I assume all wild-caughts are in some danger.
Prove me wrong, or show me the light. I'm asking for your knowledge, not picking a fight.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I'm not doing the studies, so any guess I'd make would probably be wrong. I'd rather wait until Reef Check starts coming out with their reports and base my answers on fact instead of assumptions.
Now, as far as what animals make the transistion the best, that depends on so many factors that it's impossible to come up with one list. For example, Blue Tangs. If they come from the Philippines, they suck. They are susceptible to ick outbreaks and are generally in poor condition. However, the same species from the Solomon Islands is practically bullet proof. There are lots of examples like that where country of origin plays a major role in the viability of the species- whether the cause be shorter flight times, proper collection/handling/shipping techniques, or whatever. If you want to throw some species at me, I'll do my best to give you my experiences with them. But to sit down and try to do that for the approximately 1000 species of fish that are imported would be impossible.
I'm not doing the studies, so any guess I'd make would probably be wrong. I'd rather wait until Reef Check starts coming out with their reports and base my answers on fact instead of assumptions.
Now, as far as what animals make the transistion the best, that depends on so many factors that it's impossible to come up with one list. For example, Blue Tangs. If they come from the Philippines, they suck. They are susceptible to ick outbreaks and are generally in poor condition. However, the same species from the Solomon Islands is practically bullet proof. There are lots of examples like that where country of origin plays a major role in the viability of the species- whether the cause be shorter flight times, proper collection/handling/shipping techniques, or whatever. If you want to throw some species at me, I'll do my best to give you my experiences with them. But to sit down and try to do that for the approximately 1000 species of fish that are imported would be impossible.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Sounds a lot like you're not doing your homework.
Sounds like you think any and everything should be imported, since they haven't all died on you.
They "suck" or are "bulletproof." Nice ways to describe animals.
[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: MandarinFish ]</p>
Sounds a lot like you're not doing your homework.
Sounds like you think any and everything should be imported, since they haven't all died on you.
They "suck" or are "bulletproof." Nice ways to describe animals.
[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: MandarinFish ]</p>
<sigh>
Since you like to be cutting and sarcastic mandarin.. you need to learn how to read and get a clue.. mary doesn't even bring in the fish on this list, or and indo/phil fish... if she really felt like "Sounds like you think any and everything should be imported, since they haven't all died on you." then she would import everything and push it out the next day like all the other wholesalers.. but instead, she is very selective about her fish, and HOLDS them for 6 days. She's the only wholesaler out there trying to help this industry.. all you people are doing is "pontificating" on your own soapboxes to try to make yourselves look better.. rather than trying to be constructive or helpful.
Since you like to be cutting and sarcastic mandarin.. you need to learn how to read and get a clue.. mary doesn't even bring in the fish on this list, or and indo/phil fish... if she really felt like "Sounds like you think any and everything should be imported, since they haven't all died on you." then she would import everything and push it out the next day like all the other wholesalers.. but instead, she is very selective about her fish, and HOLDS them for 6 days. She's the only wholesaler out there trying to help this industry.. all you people are doing is "pontificating" on your own soapboxes to try to make yourselves look better.. rather than trying to be constructive or helpful.
MandarinFish,
You're being argumentative again
Mary saying she wants to wait for the results of a study looking at exactly the question you are asking (what is prevalent and sustainable to collect in what areas) seems very reasonable, not like she's "not doing your (her) homework."
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Argumentative again, and just plain wrong! She hasn't said that, she hasn't even intimated that - as a matter of fact, she's said exactly the opposite.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
If I'm trying to figure out which animals to buy, it seems like a perfectly acceptable description. Quit trying to pick fights!
Kevin
You're being argumentative again
Mary saying she wants to wait for the results of a study looking at exactly the question you are asking (what is prevalent and sustainable to collect in what areas) seems very reasonable, not like she's "not doing your (her) homework."
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Argumentative again, and just plain wrong! She hasn't said that, she hasn't even intimated that - as a matter of fact, she's said exactly the opposite.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
If I'm trying to figure out which animals to buy, it seems like a perfectly acceptable description. Quit trying to pick fights!
Kevin
Mandarin,
I cannot personally go out to every collection area and construct a monitoring plan. The data for the collection areas has not been constructed yet, and as I have said SEVERAL times is in the process of being collected by Reef Check. With no data currently available and the fact that I can't personally do it myself, exactly what homework is it that you want me to do? If you have access to the sustainable quota areas of all the collection sites used in the trade, please pass them on to me.
After all you have seen here, can you honestly say that I think "Anything and Everything should be imported"? That is just silly. If I thought that I wouldn't have started work on the USL. If I thought that I would import fish from the Philippines and Indonesia. Please educate yourself about what I do before you make any more accusations because they are becoming tiresome.
I cannot personally go out to every collection area and construct a monitoring plan. The data for the collection areas has not been constructed yet, and as I have said SEVERAL times is in the process of being collected by Reef Check. With no data currently available and the fact that I can't personally do it myself, exactly what homework is it that you want me to do? If you have access to the sustainable quota areas of all the collection sites used in the trade, please pass them on to me.
After all you have seen here, can you honestly say that I think "Anything and Everything should be imported"? That is just silly. If I thought that I wouldn't have started work on the USL. If I thought that I would import fish from the Philippines and Indonesia. Please educate yourself about what I do before you make any more accusations because they are becoming tiresome.
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