I will be setting up a nano soon but am perplexed as to which type of caribeSea arragonite sand I should use. I will probably put a 2" to 3" layer of sand on the bottom of the tank. My choices are: seaflor, seaflor flamingo reef sand, seaflor fiji pink reef sand, and the arag-alive aragonite reef sand with live stabilized marine bacteria.
Which caribeSea arragonite sand should I get?
- Thread starter skwsith
- Start date
No it doesn't. They just lie. It says on the bag but actually they are cultured in factories. LFS's also lie and say they are also. I think it is one huge elaborate scheme to trick the consumer into thinking his sand is all natural but really it's from tanks that are filled with additives and such to make it grow faster. :twisted:
One point I wanted to pick up on was your mention of the pH and carbonate yields of a given sand. I thought the same thing for a long time, until I started chatting on reef boards and found out otherwise after reading some of the many articles by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley (in the chem forum on this site). What I am meaning is, sand/aragonite from any source won't support pH or alkalinity in the sense we think of. The only way to support calcium, alkalinity and pH is to continually replenish supplies via any number of methods. The best ways for nanos seems to be any of the two part additives, small calcium reactors if you are really serious, or adding calcium/alk dosings from any of the major companies. Dripping in limewater is also handy.
Me personally, I use C-Balance from Two Little Fishies, Inc.
A quick reason why:
Your aragonite sand is the former skeletal structure of corals and other calcifying organisms. If it dissolved in water, so would our corals that lay stony skeletons behind as they grow.
The only way you can get chemical support from aragonite sand or rock is to have it dissolve to some extent in your salt water, but this is a problem because SW is already saturated with dissolved minerals and doesn't readily accept any more until you change a few factors---such as increase the solubility of water by dropping the pH (as in a reactor) or present your support in some other more soluble form other than aragonite. The calcium and alkalinity support we gain from additives is more soluble because its liquid and not housed in a crystalline structure such as aragonite. Somebody correct me if Im wrong here, trying to remember most of what Randy said...
For anyone who says they maintain pH and alk through their substrate alone, ask them if they have to replenish that substrate over time---they'll say no (pH of 8+ does not readily dissolve aragonite). Anyone who uses aragonite media in a reactor (pH around 6.5) will tell you they have to replenish it continually--because it dissolves in water. Most people who don't dose their systems and claim to use the sand as support have animals/corals that can tolerate the current measures of calcium and alkalinity components until the next water change--but they get no extra support from the sand.
So, Id say pick your sand based on the colors you prefer. There are some physical differences though, as finer sand will accumulate mulm faster on the surface but this is also easy to remove--and larger particles will allow mulm to seep into the depths of the sand making removal harder. Pros and cons exist for each, but in a nano it really doesnt matter all that much because we keep them so clean.
this is my two cents for today fellas.//./
I have no way of making short posts, its just not possible for me
brandon429
Me personally, I use C-Balance from Two Little Fishies, Inc.
A quick reason why:
Your aragonite sand is the former skeletal structure of corals and other calcifying organisms. If it dissolved in water, so would our corals that lay stony skeletons behind as they grow.
The only way you can get chemical support from aragonite sand or rock is to have it dissolve to some extent in your salt water, but this is a problem because SW is already saturated with dissolved minerals and doesn't readily accept any more until you change a few factors---such as increase the solubility of water by dropping the pH (as in a reactor) or present your support in some other more soluble form other than aragonite. The calcium and alkalinity support we gain from additives is more soluble because its liquid and not housed in a crystalline structure such as aragonite. Somebody correct me if Im wrong here, trying to remember most of what Randy said...
For anyone who says they maintain pH and alk through their substrate alone, ask them if they have to replenish that substrate over time---they'll say no (pH of 8+ does not readily dissolve aragonite). Anyone who uses aragonite media in a reactor (pH around 6.5) will tell you they have to replenish it continually--because it dissolves in water. Most people who don't dose their systems and claim to use the sand as support have animals/corals that can tolerate the current measures of calcium and alkalinity components until the next water change--but they get no extra support from the sand.
So, Id say pick your sand based on the colors you prefer. There are some physical differences though, as finer sand will accumulate mulm faster on the surface but this is also easy to remove--and larger particles will allow mulm to seep into the depths of the sand making removal harder. Pros and cons exist for each, but in a nano it really doesnt matter all that much because we keep them so clean.
this is my two cents for today fellas.//./
I have no way of making short posts, its just not possible for me
brandon429
I yse silica. I got the wrong stuff thinking it was aragonite. Though it looks great and I have enough rock to make up for the calcium and such. Also I did get about 10 pounds of live sand but it looked really ugly so that is why I got the silica, to cover it. I add about an inch every two weeks. I have about 2.5 inches now and it is looking great.
Good write up brandon429 thanks. I understood it the first time I read it. I know that it takes CO2 to disolve the aragonite which is how a calcium reactor works. I hear so much about how just having the aragonite in the tank will supply the alk and calcium, but perhaps not enough and what you just mentioned about how the animals can tolerate current conditions. Interesting concept.
Enzo, I thought that silica is one contributing factor for algae growth in a tank? from what you mentioned about adding the silica every two weeks, it seems that it desolves?
Enzo, I thought that silica is one contributing factor for algae growth in a tank? from what you mentioned about adding the silica every two weeks, it seems that it desolves?
in order to not look like the world's most blatant plagiar I should post this referral:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 2/chem.htm
maybe I should have just posted this first, but I was feeling typish today.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 2/chem.htm
maybe I should have just posted this first, but I was feeling typish today.
I was under the impression that pH does get low enough to dissolve CaCO3 in a DSB because of CO2 produced by heterotrophic bacteria feeding on detritus. CO2 mixes with water to make H2CO3, carbonic acid, which can lower the pH in the immediate area and slowly dissolve the aragonite. A lot of people have to replace sand every year and I think this is why. I don't know if it would be enough calcium to support stony corals, but there is calcium and carbonate released by the sand.
oh I see what you mean, the acids (carbonic acid) generated from aerobic metabolism as the bacteria respire. I was thinking it wasn't sufficient enough to dissolve enough aragonite to notice, whereas a plenum system that has the contrasting +/- ranges in the dsb might dissolve considerably more aragonite than the aerobic environment. Good point, we should ask the guy who wrote that article--- if aerobic environments will substantially degrade aragonite because of bacterial metabolism, this is a necessary point to take into consideration because it means you would get support from aragonite substrate...I've always got an open mind!
hey I ain't too proud to print a retraction (as opposed to editing the whole post )
made a couple posts to Randy and it turns out aragonite will dissolve to some extent in our systems (he agreed bacterial metabolism plays a role). One may have to add sand over time as small amounts dissolve and go into solution, pretty much what Wombat said! Good call bro.
I still think a substrate comprised of coarse aragonite (like caribsea) will not hardly dissolve, whereas smaller-particle sand substrates have more surface area and are easier to dissolve within the parameters of our tank water. In the posts we were mainly discussing sand beds, smaller particles than caribsea's aragonite.
I havent seen any of my substrate dissolve over the course of a year, but then again it may not be aragonite live sand... its just some seeded LS that came from my local fish store and I never asked what it was made out of, I just assumed it would be aragonite but since its not dissolving it may not be.
B429
)made a couple posts to Randy and it turns out aragonite will dissolve to some extent in our systems (he agreed bacterial metabolism plays a role). One may have to add sand over time as small amounts dissolve and go into solution, pretty much what Wombat said! Good call bro.
I still think a substrate comprised of coarse aragonite (like caribsea) will not hardly dissolve, whereas smaller-particle sand substrates have more surface area and are easier to dissolve within the parameters of our tank water. In the posts we were mainly discussing sand beds, smaller particles than caribsea's aragonite.
I havent seen any of my substrate dissolve over the course of a year, but then again it may not be aragonite live sand... its just some seeded LS that came from my local fish store and I never asked what it was made out of, I just assumed it would be aragonite but since its not dissolving it may not be.
B429
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