Over Skimming

[meschaefer]

well after reading a few article's on this matter, you can't over skim. well you can, but then it become's to the point that there is nothing left o pull out of the system and the skimmer will not have anything left, bubble's wont be the same and so on, so guess that theory is out. and worse case you would just feed more often

I completely disagree. If you get to "the point that there is nothing left [t}o pull out of the system" (your language) you have over skimmed (at least by my definition). It is IMO completely unnecessary and detrimental to your system to reach that point.

If you have research to the contrary. Please post a link.

 

[NYreefNoob]

Not Saying You Can't Strip A System, Say A 29g With A Bm 250 Will Not Take Long To Completely Strip The System If You Dont Feed Or Feed Lightly, I Think His Name Was Steve Borgman, I'll Find The Link Later Today

 

[Wes]

I completely disagree. If you get to "the point that there is nothing left [t}o pull out of the system" (your language) you have over skimmed (at least by my definition). It is IMO completely unnecessary and detrimental to your system to reach that point.

If you have research to the contrary. Please post a link.

i don't necessarily agree with it being detrimental as long as you continue to feed sufficiently. My tank is skimmed to the point where if i didnt feed anything i probably wouldn't skim anything at all. Skimmate production is way down since the early stages of my system. I use the Deltec AP600 which is rated for double the size of my 65g.

However, if my tank wasn't so nutrient poor i probably wouldn't need to feed my sps. IME, I have been most successful with pulling out all "nutrients" good and bad and replenishing the "good nutrients". I think worrying about "overskimming" can lead to "underskimming"...which then leads to "underfeeding"

Just sharing my experiences. And I have found a low nutrient problem is much easier to correct than a high nutrient problem. I am feeding my fish a ton. 3 times a day they get omega flakes via the autofeeder with a frozen food feeding every night by yours truly. The fish are fat and happy. I also dose amino acids every night after halides go off. Hanna phosphate reading was 0.03 yesterday and the GFO has been in the reactor for about a month. My SPS colors are probably better now than they have ever been.

 

[ming]

Then theres no such thing as "nothing left to skim" because theres still over 400ppm of calcium in my tank. I can make a fresh batch of saltwater and run a skimmer in a bucket with that water and skim the calcium out. I don't care how much you "overskim" but you will NOT skim the calcium out of that bucket of water unless you're just letting it splash saltwater into the cup

Based on experience, it seems to skim only when there is organic waste, and all that calcium as well as other trace elements is ONLY coming along because it needs a solvent (the saltwater) to be pulled from the water.

 

[feerjoe]

look at the junior member go, you can not over skim your tank. period. the nutrient levels on a heathy reef we could only hope and wish for in a closed system. just as in the reef if the nutrient levels rise above the near undetectible levels eutrophication will begin. this is when the algae will grow faster than the corals can grow...eew and we have all seen tanks like that and are saddened for the inhabitants. yes as Wes pointed out, some beneficial fauna may be removed but the good outways the bad. again though you can not remove (too much) nutrients or elements, we do water changes, don't we?

 

[jackson6745]

I haven't seen a T5 lit tank that didn't have pastel colors. T5's really bake your corals (not necessarily in a bad way) I would love to experiment by adding a glass UV sheild under the T5's to see if it helps the corals to darken but I don't run T5's....Hint Hint

 

[ming]

I haven't seen a T5 lit tank that didn't have pastel colors. T5's really bake your corals (not necessarily in a bad way) I would love to experiment by adding a glass UV sheild under the T5's to see if it helps the corals to darken but I don't run T5's....Hint Hint

Tek-light T-5 light 4 x 48" (bulbs used for about three months): $150

:lol:

 

[reefkprZ]

If You Ran Your Skimmer Dry For A Week And Took Everything From If Scraping It Clean And Diluted It In X Amount Of Water And Did The Same For A Wet Skimmate, I Bet It Would Equal Out To Be The Same Taken From The Tank, Dry Skimming Just Give's You A More Concentrate Of The Same Stuff

yes and no at the same time.

with a dryer skim your less likley to get as much of the barely skimmed product and collect more of what the skimmer collects easily, thus the large different in PPM this is parts per million folks meaning out of 1 million parts in a dry skim you end up with far more parts per million calcium removed, on a wetter skimm you get more "other" than calcium not all of its water. at different rates of skim your fractionation device is more adept at removing different things. think of it as a fraction of one million.

they definatly would not be the same as tankreadings. as fractionaters remove some things very well and others they barely remove. you would end up with some seriously different readings from your tank water if you rediluted skim product to tank volumes.

I understand that its a tricky concept to envision, but thus lies the crux of my dismay, very few people actually know what a foam frationator does, and fewer still understand the true impact it has overall on water chemistry.

needless to say IMO the benifits outweigh the detriments, knowing when to temnporarily discontinue running the device is important for those doing feedings for planktonic organismal feeders.

 

[NYreefNoob]

Jackson Other Than The Cap That Was Your's And 2 Other Piece,( Incredible Hulk Acro And Oregan Tort) All My Purple's And Green's Are Nice And Dark, And My Pink's Get Amazingly Dark Birdsnest, And Orange's Glow

 

[reefkprZ]

I don't care how much you "overskim" but you will NOT skim the calcium out of that bucket of water unless you're just letting it splash saltwater into the cup
.

dont really know what else to say on this point. your convinced even when provided with scientific evidence that skimmers are hideously efficient at skimming calcium. believe what you will I guess, I'm going to go with science on this one.

a skimmer will pull calcium and other nutrients from a fresh batch of water, even lacking other organic pollutants. the overall accumulation will definatly be lower due to lack of other things to "skim" but it will still "skim"

 

[cali_reef]

Can anyone tell me why people with large SPS tanks and few small fish still use a LARGE skimmer? their tank(s) should be stripped out after a few days.

I always used skimmers rated 2-4 times of the tank size, I can't seem to "strip" out the tank :lol2:.

 

[meschaefer]

Can anyone tell me why people with large SPS tanks and few small fish still use a LARGE skimmer? their tank(s) should be stripped out after a few days.

I always used skimmers rated 2-4 times of the tank size, I can't seem to "strip" out the tank :lol2:.

Because it is easier to charge froward with the mantra that bigger is better without actually taking into account the specifics of their system.

The reason you can't "strip" your tanks, is that you have to many fish.:splitspin

 

[ming]

dont really know what else to say on this point. your convinced even when provided with scientific evidence that skimmers are hideously efficient at skimming calcium. believe what you will I guess, I'm going to go with science on this one.

a skimmer will pull calcium and other nutrients from a fresh batch of water, even lacking other organic pollutants. the overall accumulation will definatly be lower due to lack of other things to "skim" but it will still "skim"

Not sure what scientific data you're using, but the scientific data I know is that the amino acids binds to the bubbles causing them less likely to burst. This allows them to condense on top and eventually fall into the cup. Without those amino acids, your whole theory, or I mean scientific data doesn't make sense.

 

[cali_reef]

The reason you can't "strip" your tanks, is that you have to many fish.:splitspin

I think the same applies to coral dominated tanks. Coral will produce more waste as they grow bigger and mature, therefor a "proper" sized skimmer in a newly established tank will become too small once the tank is pack full with matured colonies. Tanks with less fish may not have less bio load, pods can breed and increase the bio load with less predators in the tank. I am in the believe you can't "over skim" a tank if you are providing the proper nutrition to the inhabitants (fish and\or coral) and perform regular water changes to replenish the used trace elements.

 

[cali_reef]

no. skimmate contains about 2200 ppm calcium, sludge about 37000 ppm, far more than your average tank water....... a lot of the elements I listed are in minute amounts but some are VERY high amounts, blind guessing that it isnt much higher is just detrimental to knowledge and spreads ignorance.

I have not read the article where your data was quoted from, does it elude to skimming will take out more calcium (or other trace elements) than what the coral will use in the same time period? My view is if the coral are using significantly more and you have to replenish anyway, the amount of trace element the skimmer takes out is irrelevant consider its benefits.

 

[NYPDFrogman]

my tank is pretty stable and shamelessly neglected for a few months for various reasons. not to the point where I was losing anything but not what it is when I'm on top of it.
I use a ASM G4 + with sedra 9000
my cup olds little over a quart and half and I empty it every week or so.
I had brown star polyps explode in my tank after my mystery wrasse disappeared. polyp covered my rocks walls could even begin to harvest it.

checking my water with my lamotte test kits everything was in order
PH8.4
SG 1.025
DKH 11
calcium 570ish
no Po4
magnesium was 1300 +/-


livestock is all healthy polyps hurt couple of SPS but nothing bad.
did a religious water change every 2 weeks about 40gals ( tank is 200 with sump)
about week ago all brown star polyp disappeared but left a cyno looking film been sucking it out and it's coming along.
I plan to put my G3 skimmer in the sump too and see if I can get the water quality even higher.
I have a redo meter and it's anywhere from 375-390MV at any given time

I'll be sure to post results. I personally dont think you can strip the water completely by over skimming

 

[reefkprZ]

I have not read the article where your data was quoted from, does it elude to skimming will take out more calcium (or other trace elements) than what the coral will use in the same time period?

not at all, he is just tallying the amount in the skimmate and sludge, it would be impossible without knowing the regular consumption rate for him to foray into a estimate like that.

 

[reefkprZ]

Not sure what scientific data you're using, but the scientific data I know is that the amino acids binds to the bubbles causing them less likely to burst. This allows them to condense on top and eventually fall into the cup. Without those amino acids, your whole theory, or I mean scientific data doesn't make sense.

like I said I dont really know what else to tell you. obviously your convinced your right and I am not going to keep on trying to force information onto some one that doesnt want to hear it. believe what you want.

I'll just say, try to keep an open mind on the subject and look into foam fractionation devices and other research regarding them.

 

[boozeman]

how about some light reading... http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...ts=69Gql9ogV4&sig=cINtEo63fca2vud_3Bafx4gAKVM

 

[feerjoe]

strong skimming increases the evaporation from the aquarium, and that allows one to add more limewater. Also, and this is very important, since the water is in better contact with the atmospheric reserve of CO2, one is less likely to get into the
regime where calcium and alkalinity are being lost from the system (which can occur when the pH of the aquarium is very high, the most dangerous time is toward the end of the photoperiod.) For the aquariums running strong skimmers, the alkalinity will be improved. Good gas exchange is crucial for limewater to be effectively used as a source of calcium and alkalinity replenishment. By promoting excellent gas exchange and increased evaporation the skimmer promotes enhanced stability in soluble calcium and alkalinity. Nitrate and inorganic phosphate are often derived from organic precursors (nitrogen in uneaten food and organic phosphates) and based on this the skimmer is probably doing a better job of intercepting organics before they are mineralized. Skimmers are pretty damned good mechanical filters, they take a lot of particulates out of the water. Those particulates may be bacteria, phytoplankton, or organic debris. All of them are going to contain some phosphate and organic nitrogen. Additionally, because the amount of limewater that may be added is increased, one may get more inorganic precipitation of phosphate, and perhaps removal of this from the system in particulate form.