Bobzarry

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Well actualy I have more questions then amswers. What water source do you use for water changes? How often and what do you feed?

Here are some thoughts: if using municipal water withought an RO/DI unit....water can change dramaticaly at any given moment. IE construction somehwere in the neighborhood. this could ad contaminents to the water for a short duration especialy in older water systems. Secondly as far as dino's there are several types the more toxic forms are not often seen in aquaria but s**t happens. cyano other then being unsightly would not harm your inhabitants altho they can often choke off corals.

What may have happened (this is just an idea withought knowing the facts of your system) is that judging by the hair algea you mentioned,... you had too many nutrients in the tank to begin with. posably from your makeup water supply. also if you over feed your adding nutrients and you do have/had big waste producing fish in your system.

if you reduced the lighting after the buildup of all these light loving algea,....you may have droped the ph and oxigen content of the water cousing some death wich further agrevates the usage of oxigen in the water column. this could couse a domino effect.

my suspition of this is the fact that you said with lights on you had some clearing of the water, you also mentioned that your skimmer may not be operating up to par.

my sugestion would be keep the lights on a regular schedule, make sure the skimmer operates properly and gives off enough oxigen to make up for the usage by the algea when lights are off and remove any dead material imidiately. keep enough water movement in the tank itself IE: power heads. Make sure to check your water supply and if you dont have one already get a filter for yuor water supply...if you have one make sure if its an RO unit to check the membrane. other then this all I can do is wish you luck and I home some of this helped.

Bob
 

tdrhodes

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HELLO!!! Great to be here! I'm glad I found this place! Iknow what I will be asking has probably been ask a 100 times before, but forgive me I am at my wits end! I have even thought about giving up the hobby. At last I find this site. I know now that there is a "higher" being!
I have serious problems w/ 75g system! Here are the stats and a brief history. Last year added VHO and new skimmer (AquaC EVS150) in hopes of moving more towards a reef tank. In November of 2000 the skimmer was installed and my tank began to change for the better! So, I purchased snails,crabs and other creatures to start the switch. I had a few, but added more per the standard gal/snail ratios. I have about 80pounds of live rock and a 3-4 inches of sand.
Well, my fish(NASO 5yrs,Purple tang 4yrs, Flame hawk 3yrs,Koran 3yrs,Foxface 4yrs, Lawn Mower 3 months) had never looked better. THEN, everything changed. Hairalge that I can't control even with water changes and havesting(every 60days I have had to brush the rock). I have doubts that the skimmer has ever worked at peak performance.(But that is a different story)Well, this fall I have continued the bi-monthly job of lightly brushing the live rock. In the beginning of Dec. my tank turned brown/red. I had seen this before, but it had always went away. Not this time! As I prepared to go out of town for the holidays, once again the cleaning job. I did this on the 14th of DEC. I also did a 30 gal. water change. Nothing different from the last 5 times I have had to do this rediculous job......On the morning of the 15th my NASO was dying..DEPRESSION!!!!!!My daughter(Rebecca, 5 in April)had named(Neuman)him as soon as she good see into the tank. I was nausious for the entire drive and I began to wonder what I had done. On returning home 9 days later my tank was in a battle. Christmas eve my Purple Tang died. Then all H@%$#LL broke loose on Christmas day.My star fish, snails, copepods, you name it it was dying. The water would appear to boil with red/brown fog. Of course nothing was open and all I could do is watch my tank continue to fall apart. So, I dug out the books..I now think that I either have a dinoflagellate or Cynobacteria problem. I have symptoms of both issues, but no way to fix either it seems. I ask for suggestions, opinions, thoughts, magic wands, VOODOO.....ANYTHING!!!!!!
Here is the current status
Lawnmower blenny is alive(have not clue why)
Crabs are living
Some snails have died
Lights off-boiling red/brown
Lights on-water clears, for awhile
I can't seem to see a pattern.
Thank You for your time and help.
 

jmeader

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Normally cyano will not cause animals to die. Dinos will. So I suspect that you are dealing with dinos. I don't have personal experience with that problem, so I would sugest a search of the archives while you wait for someone experienced to answer your post.
 

tdrhodes

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Here are a few answers to the last response. More info, the better chances to finding a solution.
As to water changes and top-offs, RO/DI from "THE" local marine aquarium shop!

My alkalinity is very consistent with very little fluctuation 4.0-5.0
Just a side note all water parameters are normal(btter than I figured to be honest.My guess is it is a nutrient that I can not test for.). I did not check
Phosphates, knowing that it will be high because of the morbidity rate.
I have removed all death and dying. What animals that remain are holding their own....

I have two power heads and the return, so lots of movement........

Thanks Again!
Keep the suggestions coming!
 
A

Anonymous

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Hey man
Sorry to hear about the problems you are having.
Here are a couple of suggestions, FWTAW
Get your own RO/DI if you can.
The LFS probably do not take proper care of thier membrane. I tested the Water I was getting from my LFS when I got my RO/DI unit, with the inline TDS meter, only to find it was just a hair better than my tap water.
Test the Makeup water for Phosphates.
This is a given, but BIG W/Cs asap. Dripping Kalk will help to improve skimming and precipitate phosphates some too.
Cut back on adding food, and only good quality flakes when you do feed, just for a little while.

Here is a question
You said the water "boils" when the lights are off. Please discribe this. Do you mean there are bubbles rising from the substrate?
HTH and keep us posted on things
 

tdrhodes

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Hesaias
I have put it off, but it's time for the RO/DI system.
I feed the bare minimums.Last March when the hair algae
took over I stopped feeding. My fish hated me! I forced them to eat
from the live rock and tank walls....They were fat and happy, even with the small amounts of food that I added.

BOILING---Because of the amount of red/brown filament in the water. It gives an illusion of fog or rolling boil. Then when you turn the lights on, the water is murky.... I understand that it is merely the current from the powerheads and return, but it really looks like a rolling boil....I don't know if I can make you understand what I mean.
Thanks
Rhodes
 
A

Anonymous

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I can picture what you mean now
icon_wink.gif


Do you have any friends who have an RO/DI, or can you get your LFS to test the water, or can you test it yourself?

Syphon as much of the snot off, as often as you can. I had this stuff in a 30 hi a while back, and it was heck to beat, but you can do it.
Hang in there
 
A

Anonymous

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Can you do kalk? Mrs Wages pickling lime is a cheap alternative to the Kent Kalkwasser mix, and it works well. The only trouble is finding it.
Kalk seemed to make the most impact on short time.
 

tdrhodes

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0215 1Jan2002
After 4hrs in the ER with wife(she fell on our stairs and broke her foot....HAPPY NEW YEAR!)

I assume you mean KAlkWASSER....Yeah I will make a gallon and dose over night I use a IV set-up...
It works well. I do have one concern my CA level is over 500 already......
rhodes
 

SPC

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Rhodes, sorry to hear about your wife, I hope she has a speedy recovery.
IMO I find your stocking level to be quite high for a 75. Maybe some people get away with this but I sure don't know how.
Steve
 

tdrhodes

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I agree!
That is why I have not added ANY CA in over a year and I am always around 450+.
I did not add last night. I just think I will be patient....
Rhodes
 

tdrhodes

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Carbon was added on the 26th! Full mesh bag in the 20gal sump. Changed the bag yesterday with what was left.

Skimmer has been cleaned more times than it should be(dont let get me started on the skimmer!)

I have two Uv's (25watt) never used. I pulled them out of storage yesterday. The pins were loose from the bulb. I think the wires are intact, but i cant really see for sure. Any suggestions about glue or any other possibilities
that are safe.

My lights were used so, bought new bulbs that was Summer of 2000. I replaced those in March with 4 URI 2 actinic 2 actinic white....But fter reading the recent articles about the regular bulbs being driven by IceCaps I might change again I have the model 660.

As far as too much at one time....I haven't added any thing since mid fall and that was the lawnmower blenny......

I am mixing water as we "speak" for a change Wednesday morning.

Thanks
Rhodes
 
A

Anonymous

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Hope your wife is Ok!

Dinos can be beat out by UV, anybody feel free to smack me down for saying that, but I think this is the case.
I dont think Kalk will raise your Ca level, but will keep it stable. Do you have much of a Calcium load, i.e. hermatypic corals, corraline algae growth, or othe calcium using animals?

Have you done a Po4 test lately? Test your W/C water and your tank water

Also if you have a canister filter to run carbon, this may do better than just a bag in the sump, as all the water has to cross the carbon during circulation. Change it every 3 days or so for a week or 2
HTH
 

S

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I've been fighting dinoflagellates since last April and only now can I see it residing.This kind of algae is very hard to get rid of.The reason why you are going through nuisance algae is because your are putting more nutrients than your system is able to export.Therefore you have to find a way to help your system to export nutrients through large water changes such as, 50% back to back and then every day 25% for a week in order to get things under control.Changing your lights will not help,I had changed mine to see what would happen and nothing changed.Useing carbon as mentioned will help and cartrige filtration also.The most important thing to do is to add a refugium and grow caulerpa,don't forget to harvest some of the caulerpa every few weeks.If you stick to this I can assure you will succeed in contolling the nuisance algae.Last but not least you should decrease your fish population,that's what caused your problem.
Good Luck

Robert
 

SPC

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Rhodes, I just wanted to point out that in my above post I was saying that you had to many animals in a 75 and I feel thats why you had the problems IMO.
Steve
 

tdrhodes

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I would have never thought I had too much in my tank. I have a photo from last winter. I am going to try and figure out how to attach.
All fish minus the crabs and a few snails in photo are now dead either by last weeks crash or the untimely death due to a faulty heater.
The leather lasted about 6 weeks. The muchrooms
were here until last week.

I can't imagine what I have put in (nutrient wise)the tank. I had practically(twice a week small pieces of dried krill or spiralina disc) stopped feeding.

As to Calcium, if someone figures this out I will send you the GOOSE THAT LAYS THE GOLDEN fish( if I could).
I have a normal 450-500+ Calcium reading(that's better than the 1000+ last year fall of 2000) It all started when I decided after some reading(first mistake) that I needed to start a regiment of Bi-onic. My thinking was get the tank ready to accept inverts. That is to say water, trace,Akalinity, lights,skimmer..blah blah blah. I thought that the corner stone would be corraline encrusted rock,tank, everything just covered. Sort of a "green" light to continue to build the reef... I thought the fish I had would be fine. There were no corals at that point. As I had written in a earlier posting the tank seemed to be starting to "turn the corner". All of the fish had the best color since I had owned them. The alge was being eaten by crabs snails and fish.....I had contributed most of the water improvements to the AquaC(dont get me started)

All I did was elevate CA to extreme levels and spend more money. So, I stopped the two part BI-onic. I test alkalinity and buff as needed. I was told that my substrate is providing the CA. What I can't understand the lack of that purple and pink corraline. What else doe sit need to flourish?

As for the Po4, I just assume it will be Navy blue(with all the dying in the tank last week) The w/c will be in the morning or Thurs. I now have a wife that needs attention.....
Yeah, I have an old marineland to run........
Thanks
Rhodes
 

jsteinman

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Try running some Activated Carbon and of course the unsaid siphon/water changes. Do you have a sump? What size? Do massive activated carbon, don't get the cheap kind and buy a good amount of it. Then change it every 72 hours. Make sure it is in a high waterflow area, preferable in your sump by the return pump. Carbon and Phosphate filters are cheap and if you buy several, you can change them out weekly. Have you cleaned the skimmer lately? Also you may want to try a small hang on UV unit. Whats running you VHO's? You said you got the VHO's last year. If so, time for a bulb change for sure. This will really help a lot! What combination of VHO's are you running? Maybe try a bulb spectrum change. Your bio load was too high for you tank size and is probably what caused the eventual crash. When you added all the extra inverts, you probably increased the load too quickly and thus pushed it over the edge. The bulbs got old and allowed the bad algae to take over. Try everything suggested and bi-weekly water changes for a while until things clear up. You should be ok. If I was to do anything first it would be the bulb change. I had a recent red slime bloom and new bulbs have worked wonders. Almost all gone now.
 

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