custom new tank (does this look ok to build tell me what you

[wuelfman]

here is the what the local guy has priced for me
is this a good deal?
72x30x24
3/4 inch plastic all the way around (using weldon 16 or 3 is this strong enough?) how thick is a 180 tank?
black background
with around around a 4 inch lip+ brace around the top (will this be strong enough?)
two corner overflows
and what ever holes i want
total price $975

[ July 24, 2001: Message edited by: wuelfman ]

 

[livingstone]

I don't know the details of the stress capabilities of 3/4" acrylic (sounds very reasonable though for a 24" high tank) but these are great dimensions for a reef tank! Looks like a good price too. I'd go for it!

 

[myreef]

My 150 acrylic uses 1/2" so you should be fine. With those dimensions the tank is 225 not 180. I am not sure, but I read once that on tanks, places like Tenecor use a 2 part acrylic glue for their tanks. I use weldon #3 for my acrylic stuff, but they are not even close to the size you are talking about. I would get references from him about other tanks he has built. IMO, I don't think a 4" lip around a tank of that size is strong enough. Look at all the mfg tanks, they basically have a top with large cut out holes for maintenance. I have never seen a tank of that size without a top. Just something to think about, but I would definitely get references. A good deal is not a good deal if you have 225 gallons of water on the floor. Good luck...keep us posted.

 

[srbayless]

Howdy,

Sounds like a good deal just based on the size of the tank. I second that the 4" brace around the top would probably not be strong enough for that size tank.

Ask if he has done a tank this size before, and if you can contact the owners of them. If he says no to either, don't do business with him. You have to see what he can do before shelling out the cash and putting that much trust in him.

Good luck,

Scott.

 

[wuelfman]

the tank will have a top with holes cut out of it for service
3/4 of a inch on all sides including top
sorry if i was not very clear

i was mostly wondering if you need a stronger glue?
he is putting togeather a list of customers(he wants to ask before giving out phone #)

 

[wuelfman]

would weldon 40 or 42 be better ?
would it look good still?
the corners will not be rounded (one piece bent at the corners ) but seamed
he had talked about doing just that with the two weldon

 

[myreef]

I think #3 and #16 would be better than the others. I got a reply from Tenecor...well sort of what I expected, but at least they were quick with it....Not like I asked for the formula of the glue they used. I just asked if they used a 2 part glue or something like weldon #3. Oh well....

Dear Andy,

Unfortunately we're unable to disclose our production techniques.

Thank you,

Dennis Hipp
Director of Sales & Marketing
Tenecor Innovative Solutions

Email: [email protected]
Phone: 602-437-4373, ext. 103
Fax: 602-437-4383

 

[myreef]

If it is a top that has access panels cut out for maintenance, then yes it is fine. I would wait on the references. I am certain, that weldon #16 is not used in tanks, just for the general mess it makes. If anything, he could use #3 then run a bead of #16 along the joints similar to the silicone on a glass tank. Will it have rounded corners or straight edge 90 degree corners?

I sent Tenecor an email asking what type of glue they use....we will see if they respond. I will let you know. HTH

 

[wuelfman]

no one else???

 

[Adam1]

Wuelfman,

I would strongly urge you not to buy a tank assembled with anything but weldon 40 or 42.

I have to strongly disagree with Mayr on this issue. Solvent cements are not nearly as strong as two parts (as long as you are talking about weld on #40 or #42).

These cements are not used to make up for poor machining technique, they are used because the type of bond they create is much stronger on the molecular level.

CYRO is a major acrylic manufacturer, and it is clearly stated on their website that two part polymerizable cements are recommended for aquariums.

As Myreef said, it is no good deal if the tank fails.

Adam

 

[wuelfman]

thats why im asking the questons now
so i dont get a bad tank
i would rather be safe then sorry

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: wuelfman ]

 

[myreef]

Thanks for the input Mike. I was not implying you should give away a trade secret. I totally understand things of that nature. Thanks for getting in on this thread.

 

[Mayr]

I don't jump in very often. Seems you don't have to look very far these days for someone who'll argue with you about the color of your own eyes. The net gives them all a little credibility until they blow it.

Mike

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Mayr ]

 

[myreef]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mayr:
<STRONG>Seems you don't have to look very far these days for someone who'll argue with you about the color of your own eyes. The net gives them all a little credibility until they blow it.

Mike

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Mayr ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My eyes are brown..no wait...hazel....ummm oh well..someone please tell me.

HEHE

 

[Mayr]

We are somewhat protective of our production methods because of all the disaster stories involving a man, a saw and a bottle of glue. Seems like everyone wants to make tanks these days. Wish I was as rich as they must think.

Solvents such as weldon 3 and others will create stonger bonds than two-part compounds. However, they require greater precision in pre-assembly machining, as there are no filler components in the solvent. Two-part compounds have their place in many larger applications. However, for most tanks under 3-400 gallons, it's usually used by small shops to compensate for poor machining quality.

Mike Blomgren
Aquarium Sales Manager
Tenecor

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreef:
<STRONG>I am not sure, but I read once that on tanks, places like Tenecor use a 2 part acrylic glue for their tanks. I use weldon #3 for my acrylic stuff, but they are not even close to the size you are talking about. I would get references from him about other tanks he has built. IMO, I don't think a 4" lip around a tank of that size is strong enough. .... Just something to think about, but I would definitely get references. A good deal is not a good deal if you have 225 gallons of water on the floor. </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Adam1]

Mayr,

I am not trying to pick a fight, but I know I am right on this one. With perfect machining or laser cutting, solvent cements may be sufficient for up to medium size tanks, but personally, I don't want to take the chance.

Please read the following which I cut and pasted directly from Cyro's site concerning aquariums:


Cemented joints must withstand the effects of the continuous hydraulic pressure and the high level of water absorption for many years. Two-part polymerizable cements are recommended for this to meet this requirement. For proper cementing techniques see Tech Brief #1-Polymerizable Cement. Solvent cements are NOT recommended

 

[percula]

When I get out of college (if I even get in?) I will buy a tenecor, I know that I can trust... Until then, I settle for my new 58 Oceanic. I dont cut corners, I like feeling safe... (I dont have any more money though..) - perc

 

[Mayr]

Adam,

I'm not looking for a fight either. I don't have time to convince you and I can't imagine many pieces of evidence strong enough to overide the experience and ovservations of over 12 years.

I've heard many people claim that two-part adhesives are stonger than solvent bonds. However, our experience and the experience of several unbiased manufacturers I've talked with (those who bond with both methods and don't tout one as superior to the other for marketing reasons) show this not to be necessarily true, especially over the long term.

Many public aquarium projects schedule a complete rehaul of many of the tanks on a regular basis because the two-part adhesives continue to degrade over time. We have watched this process occur for many years and we have seen flawless adhesive seam samples provided by world-class companies discolor and degrade, with large sections of the bond evaporating and separating. This occurs when the samples are sitting on a shelf, mind you!

Tenecor uses a large variety of solvents and two-part adhesives in it's manufacturing of tanks. Two-part adhesives are good for many applications and critical for some. Sorry, but I just don't subscribe to the belief that they are necessary for tanks as small as you describe. We have done destructive testing on both types of bonds and are completely satisfied with the safety of solvent bonds. I think our reputation bears me out on this.

Mike Blomgren
Aquarium Sales Manager

 

[wuelfman]

TANK UPDATE
i have decide to have one made through my local lfs. it will still be 3/4 on all sides exept for the bottom will be 1/2 inch
i am paying more but i know it will be right
this way i will be able to sleep at night

thank for the imput and help

 

[Adam1]

Mayr,

I am also not trying to go up against the reputation and experience of Tenecor. I have the utmost respect for your company.

The biggest point of this post was to discourage Wuelfman from buying a tank from someone who has no idea what they are doing. Unless pefect or near perfect CNC machining or laser cutting is performed, solvent adhesives will make a relatively weak joint. Solvent adhesives also make a weak joint on material that is heat stressed from cutting (not visible at first, but leads to crazing).

My first tank was built by someone that used solvent cements directly onto saw cut edges (very clean saw cuts mind you). That tank kept me awake at night worrying that it might fail. I just wanted to save someone else the sleep.

With all due respect,

Adam