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Anonymous

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After looking at all the overflows for sale, none fit my space needed/gph rating. SO I just have to build a better mousetrap. I would like to do some research, rather than trial and error my way through.

If anyone could help, here are the first round of Q's:

Does the size of the inside box related to the outside box matter?- can I have a 5x5x5 inside box and a 8x8x8 outside box without ill effects?

Does one 1 1/4" + two 3/4" pipes equal one 2 3/4" pipe in terms of flow rate?

What are the max output rates for a 1" and 1.5" bulkheads?

Why did I buy the 100 gal again?...
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TIA
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BReefCase

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Bingo -- The flowrate through an overflow driven only by siphon pressure (no motors or pumps) is a function of the cross-sectional area of the tube(s) and the total effective "head" (i.e., how far the outlet is below the intake).

So, the box sizes are of little consequnce, provided the inside box is large enough to feed the outlets freely, and the outside box is large enough so that water doesn't "back up," i.e., cause backpressure that subtracts from your head pressure.

The total square inches of cross-sectional area provided by one 2.75" diameter pipe can be found from multiplying the mathematical constant "pi" (approximated as 3.14) times the radius R in inches, squared, or (A=pi RR):

A = 3.14 X [(2.75/2) x (2.75/2)]
= 3.14 X (1.35 X 1.35)
= 5.94 square inches.

For a 1.25 inch pipe plus two 0.75 inch pipes it is:

4.9 square inches, plus twice 1.76 square inches:
= 4.9 + 3.5
= 8.4 square inches.

So, the three smaller pipes offer quite a bit more cross sectional area than the single larger tube.

Keep in mind that one pipe of cross-sectional area n square inches will flow a bit more freely than two pipes of cross-sectional area n/2 square inches each, due to greater total fluid shear and surface tension on the wall area of the narrower pipes.

(The two narrow pipes have more total inside wetted wall area than the single larger pipe, even though the total cross sectional area is the same.)

The output rate of any size bulkhead is a function of head pressure, so to put an absolute flow rate on a bulkhead size, you must state the head, either as pressure or as "fall distance."

To get rough estimated values of flow through a given siphon for a given head distance, try playing around with this formula, the "Orifice Formuila" for the flow of liquid through an orifice under the influence of gravity:

Q = KA[sqrt(2gH)]

where:

Q = Discharge rate in cubic inches per second
K = Coefficient of Discharge
A = Pipe cross-sectional area in square inches
H = Head, the vertical distance from liquid surface to orifice centerline, or just the height between intake and outlet in inches)
g = constant acceleration due to gravity (384 inches/sec2)
Note: sqrt means "the square root of."

The value of K depends on the shape of the orifice and the Reynolds Number of the fluid -- try a value of about 0.61 for water flowing through a circular orifice.

This formula does not account for any losses inside the pipe due to sheer and wall friction, which may be significant for small diameter pipes bent into a full half-circle.
 
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Anonymous

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Breefcase thanks for the info. I figured out (trial and error method) that the bottom of my outside box has to be at least 13.5 inches down from the top edge of my tank. It worked with the three u tubes (pieces of tubing) I only second guessed it because it looked odd. My tank is a 100 long and it is only 20 inches high, so having the box be more than halfway down the side of the tank made me wonder.

Do you see any problem with having a box that size? (13.5x8x8) A little over 3 gallons in the outside box alone.

Second and almost unrelated Q.
the divider in the outsided box (to keep the syphon tubes submerged) should the top of the piece of plastic be at the water level in the tank, or should it be a little below?

TIA
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jamesw

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I can give you some "empirical" numbers gained from experience (oh, and I have a degree in ocean engineering) which might help you.

A 1" diameter bottom drilled overflow can handle between 750 and 1000 gph if it has a full tank head (1.5-2') above it. That is with a pretty much straight run of pipe to your sump.

HTH
James Wiseman
 
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Anonymous

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I guess the hole will be 1.5". I will not have ~2' of water pushing down on it, only about 6"

thanks
b
 

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