A
Anonymous
Guest
dizzy":2xjiuytp said:
Have you sent the prices on LiveAquaria and the Divers Den? They are not low balling fish
Zero Degrees of Separation
- Thread starter wonderreef1
- Start date
Have you sent the prices on LiveAquaria and the Divers Den? They are not low balling fish
Gresham I agree that live aquaria isn't lowballing, but they have superior advertising by far. My gut feeling is that they take much more livestock sales than BlueZoo does from us, especially at the beginner level. When you factor in the drygoods sales they take. Forget about it. It seems like the more Race goes online and grips about PAF the more people may realize BZ is cheaper than LA(live aquaria). I'm not sure it is a good strategy.
Mitch,
I am all for the hobbyist and not the traditional stinky industry. I have no tolerance for livestock smuggling, mislabeling fish freight,( I know, it was only one dead bucket full and there are more where they came from) and dishonest business practices by the industry's players. My beef with PAF/Reefermadness/Bluezoo is that they were not up front with me as a customer, Dave rectified that and I respect him for it.
I do think BlueZoo is an excellent source of livestock for the aquarium owner as is Pet Solutions, Dr. Mac and Liveaquaria.com. I would recommend any of them to the hobbyist. I have stated before on this board that what limits my capabilities is the online market development. We need more sellers and buyers from the internet and then I will market my way through it. Bluezoo/PAF is my best hope as was Petmeds in the dog and cat industry. For me to succeed with LiveAquaria, I need more online players, both sellers and buyers, not less.
I have never had a desire to be in the wholesale business but if the PAF/Bluezoo model proves to be the recipe, I will be in California.
I am all for the hobbyist and not the traditional stinky industry. I have no tolerance for livestock smuggling, mislabeling fish freight,( I know, it was only one dead bucket full and there are more where they came from) and dishonest business practices by the industry's players. My beef with PAF/Reefermadness/Bluezoo is that they were not up front with me as a customer, Dave rectified that and I respect him for it.
I do think BlueZoo is an excellent source of livestock for the aquarium owner as is Pet Solutions, Dr. Mac and Liveaquaria.com. I would recommend any of them to the hobbyist. I have stated before on this board that what limits my capabilities is the online market development. We need more sellers and buyers from the internet and then I will market my way through it. Bluezoo/PAF is my best hope as was Petmeds in the dog and cat industry. For me to succeed with LiveAquaria, I need more online players, both sellers and buyers, not less.
I have never had a desire to be in the wholesale business but if the PAF/Bluezoo model proves to be the recipe, I will be in California.
One thing that should be remembered in this PAF / Blue Zoo drama is that these are two different companies with a common stockholder. Each company is run seperately, if they are profitable it is good for me the stockholder. If Blue Zoo does not succeed and goes out of business it does not affect PAF other than the loss of a customer. If PAF were to go out of business it would not affect Blue Zoo other than they would buy more of their product from a source other than PAF. PAF does not run Blue Zoo, nor does PAF make Blue Zoo policy. I personally give imput to Blue Zoo but the only input that PAF has is as a supplier. Blue Zoo pays their bill to PAF every day, no terms no special deal. Blue Zoo's deal is the same as all of the other internet sellers that PAF sells and the same as all our regular large accounts. If Blue Zoo can buy product on those terms, resell it and turn a profit then good for them, others should be able to do the same.
Much of the product that Blue Zoo offers and is seen as cherry items they are getting from PAF are in fact sourced from other suppliers. The Blue Zoo guys buy from several suppliers unrelated to PAF and get many cherry items that I only wish that I had for sale at PAF. They do also buy from PAF and are in the warehouse everyday looking for quality items. Well over 90% of what Blue Zoo buys from PAF would be considered regular stock bread and butter items. Well over 70% of their collectors choice items are sourced from supply outside of PAF. They hunt for their cherry items.
To say that PAF sells direct to consumers is a stretch. PAF does sell to quite a few internet retailers. It is a much more correct argument to say that I personally sell direct to consumers via the internet through my shareholding in Blue Zoo rather than to say that PAF does. The connection with PAF is via me as a stockholder.
In my opinion it is a much more direct link to be selling direct to the consumer when a wholesaler picks from its own tanks, packages the item, boxes it, delivers it to FEDEX addressed directly to the end consumer such as Quality Marine does for Live Aquaria. At PAF Blue Zoo gives us an order which we pull for them just as with any other wholesale customer, they take the order to their facility and PAF has no more contact with the order. Blue Zoo either ships the animals or puts them in their tanks at their facility for later shipout. The same treatment is offered to any of PAF's customers.
Dave
Much of the product that Blue Zoo offers and is seen as cherry items they are getting from PAF are in fact sourced from other suppliers. The Blue Zoo guys buy from several suppliers unrelated to PAF and get many cherry items that I only wish that I had for sale at PAF. They do also buy from PAF and are in the warehouse everyday looking for quality items. Well over 90% of what Blue Zoo buys from PAF would be considered regular stock bread and butter items. Well over 70% of their collectors choice items are sourced from supply outside of PAF. They hunt for their cherry items.
To say that PAF sells direct to consumers is a stretch. PAF does sell to quite a few internet retailers. It is a much more correct argument to say that I personally sell direct to consumers via the internet through my shareholding in Blue Zoo rather than to say that PAF does. The connection with PAF is via me as a stockholder.
In my opinion it is a much more direct link to be selling direct to the consumer when a wholesaler picks from its own tanks, packages the item, boxes it, delivers it to FEDEX addressed directly to the end consumer such as Quality Marine does for Live Aquaria. At PAF Blue Zoo gives us an order which we pull for them just as with any other wholesale customer, they take the order to their facility and PAF has no more contact with the order. Blue Zoo either ships the animals or puts them in their tanks at their facility for later shipout. The same treatment is offered to any of PAF's customers.
Dave
Dave,
The difference is that money spent by retailers and etailers with PAF is used to fund PAF's other company,--- BlueZoo. That is not true of Quality Marine as they have ZERO ownership in LiveAquaria, we are simply another customer( 2,152.76 miles away) and pay them to do a limited and declining portion of our fulfillment. None of Liveaquaria's marketing dollars or operating capital comes from QM----- but most of BlueZoos does come from PAF revenue and profits. You take your customers money and then turn it against them. There is no way to justify that!!!!
I have never had a complaint with a wholesaler dropshipping and I would support you today if that was all PAF did. My record speaks for itself. I supported SDC while they dropshipped for Pet Solutions and I also supported ERI. If you spin off BlueZoo with no ownership link, just dropshipping, well, I will send at least $100,000.00 your way in the next twelve months. I will not however fund a company that is also my competition, my money would be used against me. Who in their right mind would do that?? Do business saavy retailers do such a thing, financially support their competition ? I have seen a lot in my 28 years of business but sending money to your competitor to be used in marketing against you is a new one on me. I guess there is one born every minute, maybe three.
The difference is that money spent by retailers and etailers with PAF is used to fund PAF's other company,--- BlueZoo. That is not true of Quality Marine as they have ZERO ownership in LiveAquaria, we are simply another customer( 2,152.76 miles away) and pay them to do a limited and declining portion of our fulfillment. None of Liveaquaria's marketing dollars or operating capital comes from QM----- but most of BlueZoos does come from PAF revenue and profits. You take your customers money and then turn it against them. There is no way to justify that!!!!
I have never had a complaint with a wholesaler dropshipping and I would support you today if that was all PAF did. My record speaks for itself. I supported SDC while they dropshipped for Pet Solutions and I also supported ERI. If you spin off BlueZoo with no ownership link, just dropshipping, well, I will send at least $100,000.00 your way in the next twelve months. I will not however fund a company that is also my competition, my money would be used against me. Who in their right mind would do that?? Do business saavy retailers do such a thing, financially support their competition ? I have seen a lot in my 28 years of business but sending money to your competitor to be used in marketing against you is a new one on me. I guess there is one born every minute, maybe three.
aquaticvet1":1ygber26 said:
Yes. Actually a lot of retailers do support their competition. Many buy stuff from Perry at Champion and from Aquatic Eco Systems. I'm to the point where I no longer care if all the wholesalers run their own web sites and sell direct. If I must lose a sale to etail it doesn't matter which one it is. If this model works for them, then they should all do it.
Like I said, if it works I will become a wholesaler too.
Given a choice Mitch, I would never pad the pockets of my competitors, bad business practice..... Sometimes I admit there is no alternative but that is not the case here. Good luck though if you want to financially support BlueZoo. While you are at it, send a little LiveAquaria's way too!
Given a choice Mitch, I would never pad the pockets of my competitors, bad business practice..... Sometimes I admit there is no alternative but that is not the case here. Good luck though if you want to financially support BlueZoo. While you are at it, send a little LiveAquaria's way too!
Hi Race,
Actually we did send you some money when we bought one of the Lim Dragon pond pumps from you. You had them on close out and the price was better than I could find anywhere else, and I needed one. I don't really like where the industry has gone, but there is not much I can do about it. When I buy from Dave he always takes pretty good care of me and I don't really have any complaints. I really don't see one wholesaler being more ethical than the others, but I could be wrong.
Mitch
Actually we did send you some money when we bought one of the Lim Dragon pond pumps from you. You had them on close out and the price was better than I could find anywhere else, and I needed one. I don't really like where the industry has gone, but there is not much I can do about it. When I buy from Dave he always takes pretty good care of me and I don't really have any complaints. I really don't see one wholesaler being more ethical than the others, but I could be wrong.
Mitch
Thank you Mitch.
I too have nothing against Dave. If Dave wants to try a new business strategy, that is entirely up to him. I was only disappointed as a PAF customer and I also felt it necessary to comment on the differences between PAF and QM. All of my comments have been directed at PAF's business practices, from a customer perspective, and not at Dave personally. I also have nothing bad to say about their livestock quality and I think every hobbyist should take advantage of all the available livestock sources. The beauty of this hobby is that there are evolving choices, be it retail, etail or both.
Thank you again Mitch and Happy New Year, Race
Happy New Year to everyone at RDO!
I too have nothing against Dave. If Dave wants to try a new business strategy, that is entirely up to him. I was only disappointed as a PAF customer and I also felt it necessary to comment on the differences between PAF and QM. All of my comments have been directed at PAF's business practices, from a customer perspective, and not at Dave personally. I also have nothing bad to say about their livestock quality and I think every hobbyist should take advantage of all the available livestock sources. The beauty of this hobby is that there are evolving choices, be it retail, etail or both.
Thank you again Mitch and Happy New Year, Race
Happy New Year to everyone at RDO!
Unless Live Aquaria/Dr.s Foster & Smith get their livestock directly from collectors who sell/ship to them exclusively, I would propose, beyond any refutability, that they are every bit as much a part of the 'traditional stinky industry' as everyone else this side of the supply to the COC, since their livestock comes from the same exporters/importers/transshippers/brokers that make up said 'stinky industry', with all of its oft-times questionable practices-from collection methods, holding facilities conditions,(both export and import), and mortality/quality issues
.
I'm abit confused here...
Dr. Foster, what sets you apart from the industry's 'stink' if you're sourcing directly from said industry ? And if you are just as much a part of the 'stinky industry', how can you claim to not be for it, while supporting it directly at the same time ? :?
Sorry I did not answer the second part.
I am all for an industry, but as it exists it needs to be cleaned up before PETA and the government does it for us. A large portion of the transshipped fish and coral as well as some others are not fit to be sold to the general public, let alone the animal welfare concerns. Additionally, there are no standards for animal welfare and not only do specimens prematurely die, they are commonly sold to an unsuspecting hobbyist, only to die later at their expense.
I think Peter Rubec pretty much hit it right on the head. I too do not want or like government standards, but they will come.
In the meantime, the best I can do is pay for the highest quality specimens available and in turn sell them with a guarantee to my customers. I sleep better knowing I am giving them what they paid for, honestly and transparently. That is how I justify being a part of this stinky industry. For my customers I remove just a little bit of the risk and stench. I look out for the hobbyist and make no personal income from the livestock trade, I simply enjoy doing it.----- Are you still confused?
I am all for an industry, but as it exists it needs to be cleaned up before PETA and the government does it for us. A large portion of the transshipped fish and coral as well as some others are not fit to be sold to the general public, let alone the animal welfare concerns. Additionally, there are no standards for animal welfare and not only do specimens prematurely die, they are commonly sold to an unsuspecting hobbyist, only to die later at their expense.
I think Peter Rubec pretty much hit it right on the head. I too do not want or like government standards, but they will come.
In the meantime, the best I can do is pay for the highest quality specimens available and in turn sell them with a guarantee to my customers. I sleep better knowing I am giving them what they paid for, honestly and transparently. That is how I justify being a part of this stinky industry. For my customers I remove just a little bit of the risk and stench. I look out for the hobbyist and make no personal income from the livestock trade, I simply enjoy doing it.----- Are you still confused?
aquaticvet1":8tpczisr said:
So, how exactly do you ensure that the creatures you sell go into situations where the husbandry is good?
At our B&M, we usually test the consumer's water before we bag up a specimen, to make sure that it's fit. We also ask questions about other specimens the customer already has etc., to ensure compatibility.
The guarantee is fine and dandy for the consumer because he/she can get his/her money back or whatnot, even if they put the fish into a septic tank, so why should they take any precautions? After all, "it's only a fish, and I'll get my money back if it croaks."
Sure you have lots of literature on your website for hobbyists to read and hopefully learn from... but what if they don't?
Or what if they order a "small" specimen, but get a much larger (read: too big for their tank) specimen. I've seen that happen... guy bought a spotted sweetlips from you some time ago and got a behemoth monster. Never mind that it was totally inappropriate for his 30-gallon tank... it was way too big. He tried to dump it on me (and ask for store credit for it).
Unfortunately the creature died before he could bring it in, so he got his $$ back from you - and in this instance he learned a lesson... but how does your model prevent this sort of thing? That creature should have never been shipped to that individual, for a multitude of reasons, but hey, as long as he got his money back, it's all good, right?
When he first contacted me about this too-big specimen, I suggested he return it to the entity that sold it to him... well, you can't send it back... I didn't want it, but I did agree to take it in (with no offer of credit) since he had 2 choices, unload it or euthanize it. By the time he got home from work, it was dead. No worries, he got a refund, so all is right with the world, right? (Ugh.)
I spend just as much time 'un-selling' stuff as I do selling stuff. Yeah, I'm in business to make a living, we all are. Sometimes, that means helping folks avoid making mistakes that are costly both in terms of dollars, AND in terms of wasting precious life.
And Gargle asks a pretty valid question - if you're sourcing livestock from the same "stinky" sources as the rest of the trade, you're as much a part of the problem as any others among us. A guarantee doesn't whitewash that. It just makes it safe for the hobbyist to take a chance, because he/she will get his/her money back if they get a dud. Taking more responsibility away from the consumer can potentially cause more harm than good, IMO. And, it doesn't address the real underlying issues in the trade that you talk a lot about, but don't seem to really *do* anything about.
If a hobbyist doesn't do their part, then yes, livestock dies at their expense. It should be at their expense, then there's more incentive for them to take care of their tanks. I do many water tests for hobbyists every day. It's alarming how many come to me for the first time with water that is out of whack. One had his tank for a year, and didn't own a hydrometer or refractometer (his specific gravity in his "reef" tank was 1.016)... when I told him this, he said, "What does that mean?". Well it explained why his inverts were dying, for starters...
Not every hobbyist ignores their water quality - most do their homework, but it's frightening sometimes how many don't have a clue after spending tons of money to get a system up and running. The mentality of taking the responsibility of care away from the hobbyist is more harmful than helpful, IMO.
As for supporting entities that are "wholesalers as well as retailers/etailers" - I don't like it either. It's nearly impossible these days to only spend our dollars with those who support the B&Ms exclusively but I do my best to keep most of my money flowing to those who support my business and businesses like mine.
This phenomenon is not unique to our trade. A client of mine who is an electrician made a similar observation - his suppliers also sell to the public - some have different pricing structures for consumers versus their commercial clients, and some don't. It's just as frustrating to him, as we're finding it here in this trade.
Same thing goes on all over in all kinds of industries.
Dealing with livestock adds a bit of a twist to it, but it boils down to the same thing - business who were traditionally 'wholesale only' are now selling to the public and cutting out the very businesses that have supported them over many years.
It stinks... but that's the way it is. We all have to do what's best for our business, and what we can live with, ethically.
Times, they are a changing...
Jenn
Jenn, I agree with all of your scenarios, they can and do happen. You tend to get hung up on the guarantee. That does not ensure health, it reduces risk for the hobbyist and is not part of husbandry, just proof that I am willing to share the hobbyist's risk and stand behind my facility and concepts.
As you know, virtually every wholesaler gets a few quality and outstanding items in their shipments, When you can, buy those at a premium and reject the rest. Additionally, not every wholesaler practices good husbandry, sufficient to handle masses of wild caught specimens. Lastly, I hate to say it but the majority of specimens which leave the wholesaler or transshipper head to the world of the unknown, where some are crammed into unhealthy and stressful conditions and sold without proper acclimation. Same is true of puppies and kittens but that is improving with government standards and public awareness. It will never be perfect though, too many variables.
We could argue all day about who is best at husbandry but that is not the point and there are many with more knowledge than I have. What is the point is that each individual in the domestic steps of distribution should do the best they can, profits aside. I do think the hobbyist deserves our best effort and a livestock guarantee to go with it.
I would like to invite everyone including you Jenn to come to Rhinelander, Wisconsin and jump in with one of our quarterly guided tours. I know many on this board have already been on a visit. See Kevin and Steve's husbandry and facility design for yourself. Is it perfect or even the best, absolutely not----- but it is the best that I know how to help fund and at least some hobbyists appreciate that. Everyone is welcome!!!
I think we strayed from the concept of this thread. Yes, the business is stinky and I and Fish_ Dave are now doing our part to keep things transparent, whether the retailers or etailers like it or not. . By the way, the pioneer in the transparency concept is "spawner" who called me to the carpet when I first began, years ago. That was my wakeup call and he was right, I was wrong.
As you know, virtually every wholesaler gets a few quality and outstanding items in their shipments, When you can, buy those at a premium and reject the rest. Additionally, not every wholesaler practices good husbandry, sufficient to handle masses of wild caught specimens. Lastly, I hate to say it but the majority of specimens which leave the wholesaler or transshipper head to the world of the unknown, where some are crammed into unhealthy and stressful conditions and sold without proper acclimation. Same is true of puppies and kittens but that is improving with government standards and public awareness. It will never be perfect though, too many variables.
We could argue all day about who is best at husbandry but that is not the point and there are many with more knowledge than I have. What is the point is that each individual in the domestic steps of distribution should do the best they can, profits aside. I do think the hobbyist deserves our best effort and a livestock guarantee to go with it.
I would like to invite everyone including you Jenn to come to Rhinelander, Wisconsin and jump in with one of our quarterly guided tours. I know many on this board have already been on a visit. See Kevin and Steve's husbandry and facility design for yourself. Is it perfect or even the best, absolutely not----- but it is the best that I know how to help fund and at least some hobbyists appreciate that. Everyone is welcome!!!
I think we strayed from the concept of this thread. Yes, the business is stinky and I and Fish_ Dave are now doing our part to keep things transparent, whether the retailers or etailers like it or not. . By the way, the pioneer in the transparency concept is "spawner" who called me to the carpet when I first began, years ago. That was my wakeup call and he was right, I was wrong.
I'm not hung up on the guarantee, Race. I'm hung up on the mentality behind it.
My posted guarantee is much more brief than yours, but it's also not written in stone, and if a client reports something that dies outside of my guarantee, and there's no good reason for it, I take care of them. Always have. Fortunately, with "my" business model, it sure doesn't happen very often at all. I did have somebody ask me to replace a fish for free after 4 MONTHS and that was a bit much... (heck even Walmart won't replace a guppy after 90 days... and yes, Walmart's return policy applies to fish too - how scary is that?!)
Honestly I really don't have a problem with the etailing you do out of your WI facility - that puts you on a level playing field and from what I've seen, much of what you sell out of there, is the high-end, high dollar stuff. Have at it, because I don't have much of a customer base for it anyway. It's a small niche - one would more or less need to draw from a wide variety of locations to find enough market for some of that rare and high-dollar stuff.
But what about the stuff you outsource? A couple or three years ago you posted that only 24% of what you sell comes out of WI, and the rest came out of LA via drop-ship. That number still good? How often do you check on all those facilities? How are you able to keep track of the origins of each of those creatures and ensure they were properly collected and all that?
Most consumers I deal with have no idea how some etail works. Most seem to think that every etailer tanks his own stuff in-house and ships it carefully and lovingly from the seller's tank to theirs. Some do - many don't. How do you know how long the fish has been landed? Or is it re-bagged and re-shipped the same day? How do you know?
I've seen the pendulum swing both ways over the last 10 years. From LFS all the way, to the advent of the etailer and the consumers seeing low-ball prices online and thinking the LFS was "bending them over" ... then once etail costs went up a bit, prices fell more in line, and consumers began to realize that it's often more cost-effective to buy local, because they aren't paying for shipping AND they can see the specimen first, ask the retailer to hold it for a time, see the retailer's husbandry practices etc. Nowadays I'm seeing (at least locally) more of a trend for people to support their locals, because a few have gone away, and they are realizing that not only can they get value for their dollar, if they don't support the locals, they may not be around.
As for transparency.... if the fish listing on your site says, "Ships from our California facility", what does that imply?
To me, it implies that you actually *have* a California facility. You stated on Page 1 in this thread that you do not own a wholesale entity... do you own/rent/lease your own holding facility in CA where specimens are brought prior to them being shipped to your etail customers? If so, then I missed that...
If not, I submit that leading customers to believe that fish are sent out from "your" California facility is a rather major misnomer.
So which is it? Since we're all about transparency...
Jenn
My posted guarantee is much more brief than yours, but it's also not written in stone, and if a client reports something that dies outside of my guarantee, and there's no good reason for it, I take care of them. Always have. Fortunately, with "my" business model, it sure doesn't happen very often at all. I did have somebody ask me to replace a fish for free after 4 MONTHS and that was a bit much... (heck even Walmart won't replace a guppy after 90 days... and yes, Walmart's return policy applies to fish too - how scary is that?!)
Honestly I really don't have a problem with the etailing you do out of your WI facility - that puts you on a level playing field and from what I've seen, much of what you sell out of there, is the high-end, high dollar stuff. Have at it, because I don't have much of a customer base for it anyway. It's a small niche - one would more or less need to draw from a wide variety of locations to find enough market for some of that rare and high-dollar stuff.
But what about the stuff you outsource? A couple or three years ago you posted that only 24% of what you sell comes out of WI, and the rest came out of LA via drop-ship. That number still good? How often do you check on all those facilities? How are you able to keep track of the origins of each of those creatures and ensure they were properly collected and all that?
Most consumers I deal with have no idea how some etail works. Most seem to think that every etailer tanks his own stuff in-house and ships it carefully and lovingly from the seller's tank to theirs. Some do - many don't. How do you know how long the fish has been landed? Or is it re-bagged and re-shipped the same day? How do you know?
I've seen the pendulum swing both ways over the last 10 years. From LFS all the way, to the advent of the etailer and the consumers seeing low-ball prices online and thinking the LFS was "bending them over" ... then once etail costs went up a bit, prices fell more in line, and consumers began to realize that it's often more cost-effective to buy local, because they aren't paying for shipping AND they can see the specimen first, ask the retailer to hold it for a time, see the retailer's husbandry practices etc. Nowadays I'm seeing (at least locally) more of a trend for people to support their locals, because a few have gone away, and they are realizing that not only can they get value for their dollar, if they don't support the locals, they may not be around.
As for transparency.... if the fish listing on your site says, "Ships from our California facility", what does that imply?
To me, it implies that you actually *have* a California facility. You stated on Page 1 in this thread that you do not own a wholesale entity... do you own/rent/lease your own holding facility in CA where specimens are brought prior to them being shipped to your etail customers? If so, then I missed that...
If not, I submit that leading customers to believe that fish are sent out from "your" California facility is a rather major misnomer.
So which is it? Since we're all about transparency...
Jenn
When I selected a dropship facility, I personally interviewed with several wholesalers and hands down Quality Marine won the toss, they have the best livestock and husbandry. From them I get the best quality common specie fish that I can find but they are no better than what Chris offers to his retailers. They are however higher quality than what some wholesalers transship to their retail and etail customers. The California facility is O2O which is a part of QM and all fish dropshipped from there meet QM standards and we back them with our guarantee. I pay for all the labor costs, California sales tax , shipping charges and packing supplies and Kevin helps direct the processes and protocol.
A noble thing QM does is help livestock live by reducing one shipping and acclimation in their journey to the hobbyist. That is admirable, a step in sustainability and a reason not to have government control. QM sees the big picture,----- dropshipping saves lives by reducing shipping and acclimation stress and death. Their model and PAF's(BlueZoo)should be noted by the animal welfare groups and I will make sure they are.
Right now I believe less than 50 % of our revenue comes from fish dropshipped from QM. QM would not allow us to put Diver's Den in their facility as they felt it would compete with their retail customers for the rare and best specimens,------- hence we built it in Wisconsin and most of what is sold in Diver's Den comes from a variety of vendors. QM will mosty only dropship common items which are also readily available to their retail customers, that keeps the playing field level and I respect that. QM has chosen to put the retailers first.
Contrast this to the PAF/BlueZoo model and please make your own decisions on which wholesalers deserve support.
A noble thing QM does is help livestock live by reducing one shipping and acclimation in their journey to the hobbyist. That is admirable, a step in sustainability and a reason not to have government control. QM sees the big picture,----- dropshipping saves lives by reducing shipping and acclimation stress and death. Their model and PAF's(BlueZoo)should be noted by the animal welfare groups and I will make sure they are.
Right now I believe less than 50 % of our revenue comes from fish dropshipped from QM. QM would not allow us to put Diver's Den in their facility as they felt it would compete with their retail customers for the rare and best specimens,------- hence we built it in Wisconsin and most of what is sold in Diver's Den comes from a variety of vendors. QM will mosty only dropship common items which are also readily available to their retail customers, that keeps the playing field level and I respect that. QM has chosen to put the retailers first.
Contrast this to the PAF/BlueZoo model and please make your own decisions on which wholesalers deserve support.
Race, you skirted answering the question like a politician.
Your website states, "This item ships from our California facility."
"Our" is a very powerful word.
So does this mean you (Liveaquaria.com) own O2O?
What percentage comes from "other sources" not your WI facility or "your" CA Facility?
I didn't notice anywhere where it said, "This item ships from a third-party facility"... or "may ship from a third-party facility"
You did mention:
So how is a customer to know?
Remember... transparency...
Jenn
Your website states, "This item ships from our California facility."
"Our" is a very powerful word.
So does this mean you (Liveaquaria.com) own O2O?
What percentage comes from "other sources" not your WI facility or "your" CA Facility?
I didn't notice anywhere where it said, "This item ships from a third-party facility"... or "may ship from a third-party facility"
You did mention:
So how is a customer to know?
Remember... transparency...
Jenn
All the customer has to do is ask and I write publicly about it all the time, no secrets. I do not think a customer would know who O2O is--- or care---my guarantee eliminates their risk. As I mentioned, Kevin does direct the protocol for our dropshipments from our available space in O2O. Kevin is overseeing the process, makes frequent trips to Ca and speaks with O2O daily.
I have no desire to own a wholesale facility but that is my next step if QM(O2O) should elect not to dropship or Dave starts a necessary trend with reduced pricing. Kind of exciting really, all the change.
Thales has asked we keep on subject so we should from here on out, " Zero Degrees of Separation ".
I have no desire to own a wholesale facility but that is my next step if QM(O2O) should elect not to dropship or Dave starts a necessary trend with reduced pricing. Kind of exciting really, all the change.
Thales has asked we keep on subject so we should from here on out, " Zero Degrees of Separation ".
aquaticvet1":3svp3qym said:
I get it. So it's ok to mislead but explain *if a customer asks*.
I guess not answering the question is as good as an answer too, eh?
If Race did own a wholesale facility, it would be zero degrees of separation. Since he does not, I guess it's, "Some degree of deception" when it comes to items that ship out of "their" CA Facility.
Interesting...
Jenn
I will give you the last word Jenn. Your description is good enough for me.
I might add this too, at times we have actually dropshipped from multiple facilities and wholesalers, my customers could care less. Our job is to get them the best livestock possible and guaranteee away their risk. Oh, oh, did I just open another can of rumors?
Do your customers care where you buy livestock or have it shipped from?? Mine just trust me and my guarantee to do the right thing.
I might add this too, at times we have actually dropshipped from multiple facilities and wholesalers, my customers could care less. Our job is to get them the best livestock possible and guaranteee away their risk. Oh, oh, did I just open another can of rumors?
Do your customers care where you buy livestock or have it shipped from?? Mine just trust me and my guarantee to do the right thing.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
