Starting a Saltwater Tank...... guidence needed

[a novice]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by a novice:
<STRONG>I would rather start with a $300 tank and then if I really like the hobby go to a $1200 tank. </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I meannt a full setup(pump, skimmer, filter, lights, ect), sorry for the confusion. It's still early in the morning..

[ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: a novice ]

 

[Tim Reed]

It has been less than a year that I was where you are at so I agree that this forum, although very helpful, can be confusing because the replies are given from personal experiences and not tailored to what you are asking sometimes. I started with a 30 gal and put ocellaris clowns in it. I PUT THEM IN TOO SOON! One died of Brook... and the other one lived and loved the small 10 gal nurse tank I set up but hated the 30 gal. so I took it back and GAVE it to the Local Fish Store (LFS). It was my poor decision so I didn't ask for a refund. What I did at first is use tap water and a chemical called Prime to condition the water (probably a mistake-using reverse osmosis water available from the LFS would've been better). I didn't care for the ocellaris because they were finicky (ms?). I started out with two strip lights (one 50/50 and one 10,000k- k stands for Kelvins which is the measurement of the light temp/color or something like that.) Anyway, these were not VHO which are expensive, they are regular fluorescing light strips with reef bulbs. With this 30 gal I change about 10 gal of water a week, wash my hands thoroughly before sticking my hand in it (because any little change is a big one with only 30 gal for salt water (not as in fresh water fish tanks)) The first week only the sand (when they say sand it is not sand but fine crushed calcium based coral) and the 10 lbs of live rocks and of coarse the water

Let that sit for up to a week while the bacteria grow on the sand if you didn't buy live sand or if you used a handful of live sand to inoculate the other sand (as your fish store, they might sell you just a lb of live sand to help out the bacteria. The live rock will have the bact. but it will all need to sit and develop for a while (doing it over again I will wait a month or more-this is what they mean by go slow). At this point you don't need a skimmer and lights might keep any photosynthetic critters alive so by after at least a week get your lights on. I did feel the same about having lots of fish but what everyone was trying to say is that you will be soooo fascinated by the other small critters on the live rock that you will not even care about fish as much-this is very exciting (mantis shrimp, amphipods, copepods, bristle worms, brittle stars (small), and other small creatures appeared in my tank after buying some live rock from the Caribbean (get this after about two weeks-still no skimmer yet. Also, I maybe didn't spell amphipod and... correctly so..

If you get a sump, I would because this would increase the water volume, then the sump and a sump pump and one other pump circulating water will be enough for now. I have an internal Rio pump and am starting to agree with others on Rio, the one that is on my skimmer is fine but the other sounds like a lawn mower!

After about a month, or longer, add your fish. Spend some time scouting you pet store to see which fish you really want. Watch them and their behavior (hey!, I just noticed my shrimp molted last night-cool

) After about 2 weeks of fish, or maybe it was a month-but don't wait more than two weeks or LESS after adding fish, then add a skimmer. I agree that the higher the cost is usually better skimming. I use a venturi style and have built a few but by far the venturi does the best-in my Opinion. Anyway there may be some things I left out and that is what the books are for. When we explain things they are sporadic interpretations but when we compile a well designed outline of events or ideas they are more complete-i.e. a book! Final word: get your tank first-there are deep 55 gal. tanks they aren't all 4' long and narrow. I love my 30 but it isn't enough so I have a 55 gal (my tang and foxface might need even bigger later-yeh!) that I am redoing the stand on now. You don't have to buy new, look around and find a part time employee at the fish store that does this job for a hobby (usually he is just like you and knows about a deal or two from a friend and not there to sell you something new-I am truly sorry to the other fish shop employees but I have been burned a few times for "the money"

E-bay lists the location of the seller and I see stuff there all the time. Next, get plain live rock for now because later it will be put under the nicer live rock. If you can't find live rock from Florida (which may be the same as Caribbean) or others with creatures then online is a good place to order (get your pumps this way too-my $75 Rio would have cost $25 to order. Note to LFS: I like to support my LFS and I understand about over head but good grief Charlie Brown this is an outrage!--sorry.) You didn't tell us your location. I understand privacy but I bet there are people near you that would LOVE to help you out. One fiend gave me a mushroom and it is splitting-this way he gets rid of surplus stock and we save some of the real reef for the ocean. If you budget this was the cost shock isn't bad. I'll stop here because I rattled too much and my stand is calling me out in the shop. I really hope I helped, remember these are my opinions and they were wrote on a fly so may not be complete. Read read read! Read about the fish, invertebrate, shrimp or whatever before you buy because it may eat you fish or inv...that you have now. Go slow-Tim.

 

[kjb]

Reefs.org has some great learning resources available which you may not even notice if you just browse these bulletin boards, so I thought I would point them out.
I really like the Aquarium Frontiers index at http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_frontiers/index.html and take a look at Reefkeeping 101 for a good introduction.
Make sure you go to the front page of reefs at http://www.reefs.org and browse around
through all there is.

I have a 55gal tank which is only 36" wide, it's a reef ready model from Tenecor. It saves me some space for a tight fit application... though I wish I had bigger now!

Like you, I thought about starting small and learning, but I had very limited resources. You might think about starting a small tank of 20/29 gallons or so and just have some LS/LR, decent skimmer like Remora from AquaC and a SmartLight. After you get the feel for it you could use it as a quarantine tank.
I wish I could have, but...
You should be careful with eveporation problems with a small system like that.

Best of Luck

kjb

 

[Rorschach]

This would be my starter tank:
2'X3'X2' tall (89gal?) with a corner overflow to the sump below.
Looking into a deeper tank is nice.
One HQI 10K 250W MH pendant
Great rippling effect on deeper tank, crisp daylight color.
Strong/random water flow
RO water only
Zooxanthellae corals only
Very minimal fish

 

[Reefer2b]

Go used. Definitely check the classifieds. There's lots of stuff out there from people getting out of the hobby, and a lot of the FW stuff can be used. (tank, powerheads, stand). It'll save you a lot....I did.

 

[a novice]

I haven't had much luck in the past with used equipment... For one of my smaller freshwater tanks I bought a used setup of which I cleaned really well before I put my fish in and all of my fish died of some diesease.... creepy.
I've been looking in the newspapers, on ebay, and in some classifieds but haven't been real sucessful. I've found alot of large tanks(75+ gallon) but now many smaller ones. Anyways, thanks for your words of wisdom!

 

[endymion]

Since no one has replied to your $350 price target. You could get a decent fish only setup for $350 new. You definitely could get a nice FO setup used for $350 in your size range.

I do not think you could setup a reef tank new tank for $350 unless you can find a good deal for used equipment. Watch out for junk used equipment.

The only way I can think you could get a new Reef setup for $350 is to go with a Nano-reef without a skimmer. And you do not want to try this if you are not experienced.

Then the books you should read will run $30 -$60 a piece from Amazon.

I would save up some more money if you want to do a reef. I think it is worth the time to save up more.

Here is a breakdown of what I would setup for a first reef tank (55G) on a limited budget with new equipment. I am sure others will think differently. These prices are from www.marinedepot.com, which I highly recommend, unless noted.

*55G+ tank $150+ (Local store)
*Lights 48" 220W/IC430 VHO (Very high output fluorescents) Retrofit lighting from icecap. Get a single white and a single blue tube. $229 You could add a some Metal Halides later to the hood.
*2x Maxi-Jet Power Heads $13 to $19 a piece
*Remora HOB (Hang on the back) Skimmer $158.95
*DIY stand/canopy $100+ in parts and a few days of work
*Salifert Nitrogen Cycle Package - includes Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and pH $ 45
* Hydrometer from petco etc. ~$15 get this calibrated from a person who owns a refractometer
* DIY algae scraper (old credit card and plastic stick) $5
* free shipping for order over $150 except a bulb charge for the VHOs.

Yes you can go skimmerless but I would not do that on your first tank. And even if you go "skimmerless" later you should have one as a backup if some goes wrong in your tank.

Get you salt and substrate locally. If you live in the NE try and find Southdown sand at a Home Depot. Buy your live rock online about 50lbs or so. The substrate, rock, and salt will run another couple hundred.

Get a 9 for $99 special (includes shipping) from www.ipsf.com with the following after you cycle you tank with liverock and the substrate.

Bristle Worms
6 Baby Trocus
6 nerite snails
Adult strombus snails
6 Turbo Grazers
Reef Amphipods
Live Sand Activator
Wonder Mud
Anthelia polyps (good starter coral)
"supersize" with 6 Adult Trochus for $20

At the same time get 30 - 50 nassarius from www.premiumaquatics.com.

And if you can afford it get a detritivor kit from www.inlandaquatics.com ($60 plus shipping).

Oh yeah get some books now. And while you are reading and re-reading the books save up money for a good setup later.

I started with a 58G to see if I wanted to go bigger later. You just need to know that some of that equipment above will not be reused on a larger tank but could be used for a frag tank or something. Now that I know I like reef tanks I am finishing of my list for an 180G.

Good luck and have fun....

[ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: endymion ]

 

[bigtank]

I hope you understand the high cost of a saltwater tank, especially a reef. I'm seventeen and I have a 70 gallon reef. It has cost me $3,000, if not more.

I strongly recommend a sump and overflow. I didn't bother with that and I wish I had. You can get a GOOD skimmer if you have a sump, instead of a cheap little hang-on that doesn't do the job well. Another plus is that you can grow caulerpa down there for nutrient export, instead of frequently pruning it in the tank.

Use the message boards. You will learn a LOT this way, and it sure beats paying $$$$$$ for a book that doesn't tell you a whole lot. There is a TON of stuff to learn in this hobby, much more than freshwater.

For a beginner willing to spend $4,000, I would recommend a 75 gallon with a overflow and sump, macroalgae refugium, 2 250w Iwasaki MH, deep sand bed, and 50-60 pounds live rock.

 

[a novice]

Great post, lots of info in there! Thanks alot!

 

[a novice]

You're all so helpful!

I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do yet, I haven't choosen a tank or any equipment, but all of your information is being taken in and is getting me to understand alot better than I was before.
Thanks ---

 

[Anonymous]

I started about 8 months ago. I bought a used setup 55g for about 100. The only thing that I had to do was clean it up a bit. Took me a weekend. I then added a skimmer and made my own lights. I am slowly filling it with LR. Eventuelly I thought I will keep corals. Even now I am getting corals that were imported on the LR. The best advice I can give to a new guy is read, read, type, read, type and talk. Then once you have a huge mass of information ranging from good to crap, filter through it and find the things that make sense to you. Meet in the middle. Does it take thousands of dollars to do? No. Can you successfully have a reef with only PC or VHO or even flouresent light? Yes, its been done for years. Can you do it without a skimmer? Yes. There are as many ways to do it as there are hobbyists. Find the ways that make sense to you and that you can afford and then go slow. One last thing. Always take what a LFS or manufacturer says with a grain of salt. Remember, it is always about the profit. Good luck and enjoy.

RLTW

 

[a novice]

I was at petsmart today buying some parrot food and I got talking with this guy who had a 90 gallon fish only tank. One thing that he mentioned that surprized me was he said that if I was going to put live rock in my setup I didn't need live sand. He said that the organisms that you buy live sand for, are also in live rock. He said that he used normal sand(home depot?)...
Does this make sense to anyone? Is it safe? Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

The Live sand (Deep Sand Bed) is where most of the organisms live. THe dsb also is where much of the nitrogen/ammonia cycle takes place. the DSB is about 1000 % better at breaking down the ammonia and nitrites.

You don't say where you are from, but if you live in the north west part of the US you can get 'Southdown Tropical Playsand' from Home Depot for your substrate. it is under $5 for a 50 lb bag. Then you buy an "activator" and mix it with your sand.

Do a search on this board for Southdown and you will get lots of info.

HTH
b

 

[a novice]

I live in the north east.... so that problaby won't work would it.

Do you think that home depot could special order? What about some of the other home improvement stores like Lowes. Do they carry something like that?
Thanks so, so much!

 

[endymion]

You can find southdown in the North East at Home Depot as tropical play sand.

 

[JeffH]

New tanks/stands here for a great price.
HTH

 

[JeffH]

I guess you would like the link with that post.
Interamerican

 

[JeffH]

The URL isn't working here is a cut-n-paste http://go.to/interamerican

 

[fishfarmer]

If your planning on this being a future reef make sure you get a wide shallow tank. It will be so much easier for aquascaping and lighting. I've had a 38 gal for over a year and there isn't much space on the bottom for aquascaping. 40 gal breeders are wide and shallow. I'm probably upgrading to a 50 which is the same height and width but is several inches deeper that the 38 gal. 55 gal tanks are too narrow IMO. 75 gal have a nice wide footprint. If you decide on a sump, by all means get your tank drilled with overflows, instead of a hang on overflow.

You can save money on sand, diy lighting, diy stand and canopy. I tried a diy skimmer and overflow but finally broke down and bought better equipment in the end.

I've spent around $1000 on just my equipment, test kits, etc. for my 38 gal. This doesn't include the livestock and rock.