LOL, honestly it would depend on who you asked, who's jurisdiction it fell under, what mood they were in that day. How many arm chair "scientists" were involved, and how fast you reacted.
Rock farming is allowed on leased bottom here and actually falls outside of most of these regs. However, anything is possible. This would actually be a perfect example of "don't ask, don't tell" because it could theoretically shut you down.
We do try to temper this with a little common sense.
Jerel
Rock farming is allowed on leased bottom here and actually falls outside of most of these regs. However, anything is possible. This would actually be a perfect example of "don't ask, don't tell" because it could theoretically shut you down.
We do try to temper this with a little common sense.
Jerel
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bill2:
[QB]Also at what point does an artificial reef become a natural one? [QB]<hr></blockquote>
Literally, when their lease runs out. You have to consider, if the rocks were never there, there would have been no settlement/colonization.
[QB]Also at what point does an artificial reef become a natural one? [QB]<hr></blockquote>
Literally, when their lease runs out. You have to consider, if the rocks were never there, there would have been no settlement/colonization.
Bill
I understand your point as far as tidal pools go. I just have a hard time seeing why we are concerned enough with saving the reefs within our countries waters but we are willing to allow rock to be imported in. I think if w ban the ollecton in our waters importing is not the correct thing to do. IMO producing what you consume is.
I understand your point as far as tidal pools go. I just have a hard time seeing why we are concerned enough with saving the reefs within our countries waters but we are willing to allow rock to be imported in. I think if w ban the ollecton in our waters importing is not the correct thing to do. IMO producing what you consume is.
Bommer, I found this in the Fla Laws(c) There shall be no limits on the harvest for commercial purposes of
octocorals unless and until the season for all harvest of octocorals in federal Exclusive Economic Zone
(EEZ) waters adjacent to state waters is closed. At such time, the season for harvest of octocorals in
state waters shall also close until the following October 1, upon notice given by the Secretary of the
Department of Environmental Protection, in the manner provided in Section 120.52(16)(d), Florida
Statutes. Each person harvesting any octocoral as authorized by this rule may also harvest substrate.........? Where is a law on sand written, I cant find it? Thanks Much
octocorals unless and until the season for all harvest of octocorals in federal Exclusive Economic Zone
(EEZ) waters adjacent to state waters is closed. At such time, the season for harvest of octocorals in
state waters shall also close until the following October 1, upon notice given by the Secretary of the
Department of Environmental Protection, in the manner provided in Section 120.52(16)(d), Florida
Statutes. Each person harvesting any octocoral as authorized by this rule may also harvest substrate.........? Where is a law on sand written, I cant find it? Thanks Much
CBA
I cannot direct you to the exact law but collecting in florida and most notablely in the Keys is enforced by the Dept of Marine Fisheries and interpetation of the law is very different from area to area. If you are planning on collecting in Marathon a quick stop by John Penningcamp state coral reef park they will explain what is allowable in that area. Once you move down to the mid and lower keys it is a completely different set of rules. Some say you can collect under different laws if you are out 5 miles, the problem is if you are stopped on the way in and the inspectors do not know you from Adam are they going to believe you?
I cannot direct you to the exact law but collecting in florida and most notablely in the Keys is enforced by the Dept of Marine Fisheries and interpetation of the law is very different from area to area. If you are planning on collecting in Marathon a quick stop by John Penningcamp state coral reef park they will explain what is allowable in that area. Once you move down to the mid and lower keys it is a completely different set of rules. Some say you can collect under different laws if you are out 5 miles, the problem is if you are stopped on the way in and the inspectors do not know you from Adam are they going to believe you?
Fish Farmer,
That's my question also. Also at what point does an artificial reef become a natural one? Thus is their a time limit in which one can put rock in the ocean and pull it out later with minimal impact? I would think the longer the rock is in teh ocean the more impact it has upon the environment it affects.
Fishaholic: Can't use this arguement for natural live rock because most of it is harvested in the shallows and moves around constantly within the lagoon. Aquacultured rock is placed in deeper water I believe thus not greatly impacted by wave and tidal forces. Consequently aquacultured rock is in 1 place longer than natural rock I believe thus it has a greater impact upon it's immediate environment.
That's my question also. Also at what point does an artificial reef become a natural one? Thus is their a time limit in which one can put rock in the ocean and pull it out later with minimal impact? I would think the longer the rock is in teh ocean the more impact it has upon the environment it affects.
Fishaholic: Can't use this arguement for natural live rock because most of it is harvested in the shallows and moves around constantly within the lagoon. Aquacultured rock is placed in deeper water I believe thus not greatly impacted by wave and tidal forces. Consequently aquacultured rock is in 1 place longer than natural rock I believe thus it has a greater impact upon it's immediate environment.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Same reason why we protect certain reptiles, arachnids ETC in our country but also import them. Some things are plentiful in certain countries and in other countries it is not. There is plenty of live rock in fiji that I know and there are plenty of other islands if the demand out strips the production. I'm not saying use up one island and move on. I am saying collect at rates that are equal to production rates. Collection of any animal/live rock must be dependant upon the environment it is coming from not the one it is going to. Should we not import any more oil becuase we are the largest producer of greenhouse gases?
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Hmm is this a shade of grey in your black and white world? Say it ain't so.
Same reason why we protect certain reptiles, arachnids ETC in our country but also import them. Some things are plentiful in certain countries and in other countries it is not. There is plenty of live rock in fiji that I know and there are plenty of other islands if the demand out strips the production. I'm not saying use up one island and move on. I am saying collect at rates that are equal to production rates. Collection of any animal/live rock must be dependant upon the environment it is coming from not the one it is going to. Should we not import any more oil becuase we are the largest producer of greenhouse gases?
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Hmm is this a shade of grey in your black and white world? Say it ain't so.
Stay out of pennekamp and the "no fish" zones scattered throughout the keys. These will be designated by floating buoys. The link that I posted in the "florida hawaii collection thread" designates the laws that are different for monroe county (thats where the keys are located) The main parts are lower lobster limits and a ban on spear fishing. The federal laws are completely different. The only problem as someone else mentioned above is that you gotta bring em back into state waters someway and the florida marine patrol has no clue where you collected them.
Mary
You are correct that I would defend your right to import animals because you are operating within the law. I do believe that the laws will change and I am sure that you are intelligent enough to make the transistion to someone who does aquaculture, if I remember right you were in the planning stages of having a natural sunlight coral pool to produce frags.
I will also give my full support to legislation that protects species.
I have never had a problem with anyone that does a job within the law. I have seen the effects of having importers that have too much influence over the legislation of the laws that govern the animals they deal in.
I seriously have no idea what point if any Jeremy is attempting to make lately?
You are correct that I would defend your right to import animals because you are operating within the law. I do believe that the laws will change and I am sure that you are intelligent enough to make the transistion to someone who does aquaculture, if I remember right you were in the planning stages of having a natural sunlight coral pool to produce frags.
I will also give my full support to legislation that protects species.
I have never had a problem with anyone that does a job within the law. I have seen the effects of having importers that have too much influence over the legislation of the laws that govern the animals they deal in.
I seriously have no idea what point if any Jeremy is attempting to make lately?
I have no interest in collecting any fish from the Keys as they are too few in number as of late, even if the law says I can... my question was about there not being any limit on the number of octocoral alowed per day by a commercial collector? No limit whatsoever is a bit much? The "Sand law" I dont think truely exists{ Written } Also the idea of laws on octocorals being different in various areas of the state is a bit odd, being that only one county even has octocorals?
<<There is not a lot of grey about how I feel personaly but the law is not the same as how I feel. Untill the laws are changed I would defend someones right to do as they please under the law, even if it runs counter to how I feel.>>
Am I the only one that finds this extremely hypocritical? You argue in circles for no apparent reason.. I think it's all just a big troll.
Am I the only one that finds this extremely hypocritical? You argue in circles for no apparent reason.. I think it's all just a big troll.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jeremy Russell:
<strong><<There is not a lot of grey about how I feel personaly but the law is not the same as how I feel. Untill the laws are changed I would defend someones right to do as they please under the law, even if it runs counter to how I feel.>>
Am I the only one that finds this extremely hypocritical? You argue in circles for no apparent reason.. I think it's all just a big troll.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong><<There is not a lot of grey about how I feel personaly but the law is not the same as how I feel. Untill the laws are changed I would defend someones right to do as they please under the law, even if it runs counter to how I feel.>>
Am I the only one that finds this extremely hypocritical? You argue in circles for no apparent reason.. I think it's all just a big troll.</strong><hr></blockquote>
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