A few points.
"No dripping sarcasm allowing- either for free or for profit"
WHAT???! Should we all wear Burkas as well? Flaming, that's one thing. But sarcasm/humor/jabs should not be outlawed! Here's an even better idea -> use tax dollars, spend millions, train licensed enforcers, and then pass a law stating that in order to use humor/sarcasm/dripping sarcasm in a discussion - we need to get a 'Humor License'.
"It is a shame that one of the largest reef sites on the internet does not take a stand to conserve the natural reefs but yet the people Admnistrating and Moderating want to make light of the over harvesting."
Kleenex please. What!? Admin isn't making light of harvesting! They make light of the fact that hurricanes, the food fishing industries, the fishers who fish for their families, sushi bars (yum), acts of God, Exxon, GNC (they sell fish products), holes in the ozone and global warming, and even that horrible natural selection thing --'the bigger fish eats the little fish, all add up to reef damage, and yet we get bent out of shape because we think the cause is our hobby. The numbers are bogus unless we factor damage done by anything having to do with the ocean. It is an impossible feat, therefore, claiming that the dying reefs are due to the fish hobby is a little on the extreme. Our hobby possibly accounts for less than one percent of any damage done.
"What does it say in your profile Bill about conserving reefs? Do you think that not taking warnings about reef degradation seriously is the type of leadersip that this site should be sending to its members? Most noteably as this site for many is the first time many have ever seen a discussion on the condition of those reefs regardless of who is to blame?"
OK, now it's technologies fault. We should institute a program that teaches newcomers to the web the pitfalls they may encounter, and the vicious lies that may be implanted into their minds by evil admin.! And, of course, require a $500 license to use the internet. SHAME ON THE ADMIN! I bet they kill innocent babies too.
"If this is true then why not "ban" 1/2 of the imports coming from Indonesia until the reef show signs of recovery?"
Lets ban tea while were at it.
"Please do not tell me that to meddle in other countries business is wrong as our governments do it all the time to "bully" smaller countries into doing what we want weather it is environmental, political or economical. This step would encourage countries which relied even in part on trade of coral for ornamentals to be a little more careful with pollution as well as collection methods.
And if they don't comply, we destroy them. Actually, I would agree with you here, on the basis that we "bully" them for an even somewhat explainable reason! Like, human rights violations for instance. I can see it now, "stop chopping off the hands of your citizens and..oh be nicer to the fish or we will stop buying them from you."
"ME:A license? Gotta be kidding me! I say that as respectfully as I can, but lets be realistic. Our government can't handle the war on drugs, and actually makes it a more profitable business. Our government in no way will be able to do anything to make any country crack down on it's hoby fish fishermen, and make them see the error of their ways.
"RESPONSE: I don't see why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Your barber is licensed. So is your local lawyer, accountant and real estate agent. Unions control participation in many occupations. Are there non-union shops? Sure. But when they become a noticeable blip on the radar screen, the unions mobilize to try and shut them down, or get them to be a union shop. So rather than calling it a "license," if that's so offensive, call it a "membership" (union) card. To buy saltwater critters you have to have a card, and you buy from membership stores, that get their stock from membership wholesalers - wholesalers or retailers who violate the "membership" (union) agreement risk sanctions (either pay the fines or get your membership revoked, and if your membership is revoked, the retailers won't buy from you (if you're a wholesaler), or you lose your window sticker and get your name on a "no longer a member" list so the local customers know (if you're a retailer)). Money can be a pretty strong incentive to stay within the rules."
I know you mean well, but a license to buy a fish? A sticker in your window, one you must pay for, to sell the fish? And when do we force persons to have a license to buy a hampsters, iguanas, rabbits, dogs etc. Why not license everything!
The Better Business Bureau is a "membership club" as you suggested. A struggling business owner must pay tons of money for a sticker in his window. Why? So when people want to complain about him/her they call the bureau and make a report. Of course, when someone is happy with a business, whats the percentage of those that call for a good report. And how often do YOU rely on the BBB. The Better Business Bureau serves no purpose whatsoever, just as a Tropical Fish Club (that a store owner would be forced to dump money into) serves no purpose. The money would go towards an overseer, then to the drones that stamp the licences and write reports, and then to the paper needed for the reports that would go into the (club paid for) file cabinet never to be seen again. Oh, and for that little piece of plastic allowing you to purchase a -fish- in this wonderful and free land we call, America. It's ok to cry everyone, let it out. Give it a good cry. Use all that red tape to mop up the tears. Oh no, the red tape is made of paper, which is made from trees, which monkeys swing on, therefore we need a license to own paper. I'll stop there. whew.
And no hard feelings everyone. Just a good old fashioned debate, mixed with a little dripping sarcasm.
"No dripping sarcasm allowing- either for free or for profit"
WHAT???! Should we all wear Burkas as well? Flaming, that's one thing. But sarcasm/humor/jabs should not be outlawed! Here's an even better idea -> use tax dollars, spend millions, train licensed enforcers, and then pass a law stating that in order to use humor/sarcasm/dripping sarcasm in a discussion - we need to get a 'Humor License'.
"It is a shame that one of the largest reef sites on the internet does not take a stand to conserve the natural reefs but yet the people Admnistrating and Moderating want to make light of the over harvesting."
Kleenex please. What!? Admin isn't making light of harvesting! They make light of the fact that hurricanes, the food fishing industries, the fishers who fish for their families, sushi bars (yum), acts of God, Exxon, GNC (they sell fish products), holes in the ozone and global warming, and even that horrible natural selection thing --'the bigger fish eats the little fish, all add up to reef damage, and yet we get bent out of shape because we think the cause is our hobby. The numbers are bogus unless we factor damage done by anything having to do with the ocean. It is an impossible feat, therefore, claiming that the dying reefs are due to the fish hobby is a little on the extreme. Our hobby possibly accounts for less than one percent of any damage done.
"What does it say in your profile Bill about conserving reefs? Do you think that not taking warnings about reef degradation seriously is the type of leadersip that this site should be sending to its members? Most noteably as this site for many is the first time many have ever seen a discussion on the condition of those reefs regardless of who is to blame?"
OK, now it's technologies fault. We should institute a program that teaches newcomers to the web the pitfalls they may encounter, and the vicious lies that may be implanted into their minds by evil admin.! And, of course, require a $500 license to use the internet. SHAME ON THE ADMIN! I bet they kill innocent babies too.
"If this is true then why not "ban" 1/2 of the imports coming from Indonesia until the reef show signs of recovery?"
Lets ban tea while were at it.
"Please do not tell me that to meddle in other countries business is wrong as our governments do it all the time to "bully" smaller countries into doing what we want weather it is environmental, political or economical. This step would encourage countries which relied even in part on trade of coral for ornamentals to be a little more careful with pollution as well as collection methods.
And if they don't comply, we destroy them. Actually, I would agree with you here, on the basis that we "bully" them for an even somewhat explainable reason! Like, human rights violations for instance. I can see it now, "stop chopping off the hands of your citizens and..oh be nicer to the fish or we will stop buying them from you."
"ME:A license? Gotta be kidding me! I say that as respectfully as I can, but lets be realistic. Our government can't handle the war on drugs, and actually makes it a more profitable business. Our government in no way will be able to do anything to make any country crack down on it's hoby fish fishermen, and make them see the error of their ways.
"RESPONSE: I don't see why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Your barber is licensed. So is your local lawyer, accountant and real estate agent. Unions control participation in many occupations. Are there non-union shops? Sure. But when they become a noticeable blip on the radar screen, the unions mobilize to try and shut them down, or get them to be a union shop. So rather than calling it a "license," if that's so offensive, call it a "membership" (union) card. To buy saltwater critters you have to have a card, and you buy from membership stores, that get their stock from membership wholesalers - wholesalers or retailers who violate the "membership" (union) agreement risk sanctions (either pay the fines or get your membership revoked, and if your membership is revoked, the retailers won't buy from you (if you're a wholesaler), or you lose your window sticker and get your name on a "no longer a member" list so the local customers know (if you're a retailer)). Money can be a pretty strong incentive to stay within the rules."
I know you mean well, but a license to buy a fish? A sticker in your window, one you must pay for, to sell the fish? And when do we force persons to have a license to buy a hampsters, iguanas, rabbits, dogs etc. Why not license everything!
The Better Business Bureau is a "membership club" as you suggested. A struggling business owner must pay tons of money for a sticker in his window. Why? So when people want to complain about him/her they call the bureau and make a report. Of course, when someone is happy with a business, whats the percentage of those that call for a good report. And how often do YOU rely on the BBB. The Better Business Bureau serves no purpose whatsoever, just as a Tropical Fish Club (that a store owner would be forced to dump money into) serves no purpose. The money would go towards an overseer, then to the drones that stamp the licences and write reports, and then to the paper needed for the reports that would go into the (club paid for) file cabinet never to be seen again. Oh, and for that little piece of plastic allowing you to purchase a -fish- in this wonderful and free land we call, America. It's ok to cry everyone, let it out. Give it a good cry. Use all that red tape to mop up the tears. Oh no, the red tape is made of paper, which is made from trees, which monkeys swing on, therefore we need a license to own paper. I'll stop there. whew.
And no hard feelings everyone. Just a good old fashioned debate, mixed with a little dripping sarcasm.
